Introduction and Question on Edison Home Edition C 1905

[FellowCollector]

Hello Iva, The Edison Home phonograph in the picture does not appear to be a Model C but instead a later model B. The Edison Home model C had no end gate and if you look closely at the picture on the right end of the phonograph you can see what I believe is the end gate locking lever - meaning this is most likely a model B Edison Home. The Edison Home model C is very hard to find. I am still looking for one for my collection. Quick story: Back in the summer of 1993 I was walking around at an antique show and noticed a dealer had a beautiful original morning glory horn adorned with flowers sitting on a table. I walked over to take a close look at the horn and asked the dealer for his price. He responded with, "That horn goes with the Edison player in the truck. We haven't unloaded the player yet and I have to sell them together." I said OK and waited for the player to come off the truck. When he finally unloaded the Edison I realized it was a gorgeous condition Edison Home model C (and the plate indicated a model C) with no end gate and exactly as it should be in every way. I asked him for the price. "It's 750 with the horn.". I asked if there was any room on the price for negotiating. "Nope. That's close to what we paid for it." At the time I felt his price was too high and I thanked him and walked away. I have regretted my decision ever since that day because here it is almost 21 years later and I have yet to find another Edison Home model C especially in such nice original condition. What a blunder. But live and learn as they say.

Doug

[FloridaClay]

As he indicates he is beginning to sell off his collection, perhaps you could go see what else he has and might find something more original that you would like better.

Oh, and when you've been around here a bit, you will see that whether to restore, and if so how much, is one of a few eternal debates in the collector community with people all along the line from wanting it factory new in appearance to don't touch anything to somewhere in the middle--with everybody being passionate about his or her own particular position. Educate yourself about the pros and cons and then decide where you come down on that. If you are buying for investment and resale, original is probably always better, but if you are acquiring a machine for your own enjoyment ultimately you are the person who is going to live with the machine and have to be happy with it, so the decision is yours alone.

Clay

[zenith82]

I agree that his asking price is out of line and from the picture, it looks to be an amateur-ish restoration. The finish doesn't look right at all and in my opinion, it should be re-done by someone who knows what they are doing. Personally, I wouldn't go any higher than 375-400 on that machine, and I might not even do that.

You should be able to find a nicer, more original machine for less money if you are patient. Original morning glory horns aren't too hard to find, either. Even if you resort to ebay, you can get a much nicer machine for that kind of money.

[Iva]

geezz, I kind of feel sorry for the guy now.
He seemed to put some time into this for restoration. I'm sure he was thinking it would up the value and become a more sought after item. I don't have the heart to tell him that he may have lowered the value and at least one couldn't even look at the "horror" he had done to the machine.

I am in "No-where" Montana, Machines don't seem to come up that much around here. I have been using Craigs list and there is just nothing around.
This gentleman has had this listed for about 5 months. Mentioned he wanted to find the right buyer..cause he wanted this to be displayed in a livingroom..not shut up in a closet. So I'm guessing he is proud of his job.
I also thought the finish was a bit over the top shiny. I have talked to a couple of folks that said they have their machines the grandparents used to own and they have no marks on them (not interested in selling though)so I had hoped just maybe this was original and sat in someones side room for years and was shiny because of not handled much.
The thought of redoing the finish is an idea. but then I am also "redoing" the finish and "original" is out of the question at this point.


He did mention the stand was not original.
I have heard that stands hardly ever make it through the years and most are not original. So I wasn't sure how much of a difference that made.

He said he wouldn't sell it to me until I knew how to work it and he wanted to take time and show me. Which I suppose I could find that info on youtube but I think it would be beneficial to have it personally shown to me.

I am guessing the plate on the machine would have "C model" on it? or is there a different way to make sure what model this one is?

So there is no-way this could be a model C with an attachment added?
I can't remember what he called the attachment he added.

the pics he showed I can't read the plate. So I would have to ask him to send a better one of it.

thanks again for the help.

[Chuck]

Hello Iva,

Welcome to the group! Your story reminds me
of a guy in Bloomington, Illinois who is trying
to sell an unrestored Edison C-19 diamond disc
machine for $350.

Last summer I drove over there and inspected
that machine. It winds up ok, plays ok, stylus
and reproducer looks ok....all good.

Cabinet has some minor corner dings and one leg
is messed up.

I would take it off his hands for $200, and
$250 would be absolute tops.

So, anyway, his bottom end is a clean even
$100 higher than my absolute highest I will go
on this machine.

It appears that him and I will most likely never reach an agreement, and that machine will
continue to sit in his garage.

As the old song goes: "You have to know when
to hold 'em, and when to fold 'em"

Keep looking at Edison cylinder machines.
Patience always pays off.

Chuck

[FloridaClay]

There should be a plate on the machine with the model number, serial number, etc.

You might also find on personal inspection that the finish looks better (or worse) than in the photographs. That is often the case. And you should be able to quickly determine whether the flowers on the horn are decals or hand painted.

Being in an area where there isn't much available is definitely a consideration.

A good way to get a feel for the market is to travel to one of the regional phonograph shows held around the country if you get a chance.

Clay

[Phonolair]

I certainly agree with the others that its to much for what it is. You have to be patient and remember not to let his mistake be your mistake. I can see where he could have $700 plus into the machine but that doesn't make it worth it. From the pictures the horn looks like a Smith restoration, they were about $300 and if he added a 2 & 4 minute conversion that's another $200 plus the crane and the machine to start with. As mentioned earlier try to get to a major show or auction. There's a show in June at Union Ill. that will allow you to see what is available and a great learning venue. Machines may be hard to find in your area but don't give up, keep searching and they will show up.
Best Regards, Larry

[52089]

I just posted a "Featured Phonograph" post regarding my Model C Standard. Hopefully this will show the 2 major characteristics of a Model C machine, namely

1) absence of an end gate at the right side of the mandrel, and
2) serial number ending in "C"

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=15757

Hope you enjoy.

[Iva]

I'll ask him about the serial number.
The horn was hand painted and he said he sprayed a few layers to get it shiny.

I looked at your post 52089, and read that the C models only came out in 1908? well then this can't be a C model because he said it was a 1905 year.

I'm learning quit a bit off this and am so thankful for every one of the replies. I'm running out the door for a while but wanted to post this image which is different from what 52089 posted so I'm pretty sure you are all right about this not being a C model.

[VintageTechnologies]

He said the flowers and the paint job matched what the horn looked like before...but I'm still not so sure on that.

He commented that horns never had regular paint jobs and that most people painted the flowers in themselves. I wasn't so sure on that either.

You were right to be suspicious, he was pulling your leg (to put it mildly). Horns were sold ready to go - often in black with gold trim, and also in many colors and styles with flowers. The Tea Tray Company made some real beauties. I would wager than most people did NOT paint their own horns back then.

Examine anything else he offers you with a wary eye.