"Restoring" my HMV 130

bart1927 · Post by **bart1927** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:50 pm

You may have read my story about the HMV 130 I bought on Ebay. After it's arrival I had mixed feelings about it, but I'm getting to be more and more enthusiastic about it. But first I need to have some more info on this machine, so I can proceed with the right materials.

- The motor. Someone degreased and regreased it for me, and it's running rather smooth now, but I do hear the occasional little bump now and then. It's not as bad as it used to be, when I first got it the bumps were more severe and occurred more often. Are those little bumps now and then harmless or not, and do they mean I need new springs?

- The wood. I'm not sure what kind of wood it is, but it looks layered, and quite frankly, a little cheap, like cigar box wood. It`s a little dirty, so I want to clean it. Should a damp towel do the trick, or do I need stuff like Goo Gone? There are quite some scuffs and scratches, and for the moment I intend to leave it that way, but if I change my mind, would it be OK to sandpaper it, oil it, paint it, or whatever I could to to restore it to it's original state?

- The veneer on top of the lid is lifting. I have read I can just glue it back with super glue or white wood glue. Is that correct?

- The grille. I may be able to get some original cloth, so I already removed the grille. I unscrewed the two screws at the top, at the bottom it just slides into a slit, if you know what I mean. I tried to put it back, but it didn't fit anymore, for some strange reason. The slit is clean, no debris or old steel needles in it. Because it fit in there when I bought it I guess I'm doing something wrong, or did the wood expand in the last couple of days?

- The metal. I understand that the tonearm, the needle cups, the needle container, the speed dial, the eskutcheon (I now have an original one) are made of brass. They would benefit from a little polish, I think, they look a little dull, and some of them even have a few rusty spots. How should I proceed? Should I use Brasso (metal polish), Coca Cola (anti-rust), or just leave it. I once polished a candle with Brasso, and it ended up bright and shiny, but after a couple of months the dullness returned. And since when you are polishing you are in fact removing a little layer, if you polish long enough it will be wearing thin.

-Finally, the soundbox. Since the original soundbox was damaged beyond repair I bought another one. It sounds good, the rubber ring at the back feels flexible, and when you press the needle bar you can see the diaphragm moving back and forth. So I think it is in good shape, except for a little crack in the edge. It sounds good though, I think, maybe a little lacking in bass. I must admit I have no idea of how good it could sound. The only reference I have is my Columbia 109A portable, and my modern equipment, adapted to play 78's. The 130 sounds a lot better than the 109A of course, but compared to my modern system it lacks in bass, and maybe in highs (which can be solved by playng with the lid open, instead of closed, so the reproducer acts as a tweeter). Or is it unfair to compair a 130 to my modern system? Should I get my soundbox rebuilded, or shouldn't I expect a significant increase in sound quality from it?

Those were my questions for now. I hope some of you are able and willing to answer them. Thanks in advance for your help.

Kind regards,

Bart

Brad · Post by **Brad** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:12 pm

bart1927 wrote: - The motor. Someone degreased and regreased it for me, and it's running rather smooth now, but I do hear the occasional little bump now and then. It's not as bad as it used to be, when I first got it the bumps were more severe and occurred more often. Are those little bumps now and then harmless or not, and do they mean I need new springs?

The bumps are most likely caused by thickened grease inside the spring barrel(s). I personally don't think they are a problem and I find that is you use the machine a lot, the frequency and severity will reduce. I would suggest the you wind up the machine and observe the spring barrels and works to make sure that the bumps are not something binding or worn gears.

bart1927 wrote:- The wood. I'm not sure what kind of wood it is, but it looks layered, and quite frankly, a little cheap, like cigar box wood. It`s a little dirty, so I want to clean it. Should a damp towel do the trick, or do I need stuff like Goo Gone? There are quite some scuffs and scratches, and for the moment I intend to leave it that way, but if I change my mind, would it be OK to sandpaper it, oil it, paint it, or whatever I could to to restore it to it's original state?

- The veneer on top of the lid is lifting. I have read I can just glue it back with super glue or white wood glue. Is that correct?

Keep water, damp clothes and Goo Gone away. I recommond what conservators and museums use: Kotton Klenser.

The Veneer will illicit passonate debate. I have had good luck with PVA (yellow woodworkers glue) and superglue. Others swear by Hyde glue. All should work fine.

bart1927 wrote:- The grille. I may be able to get some original cloth, so I already removed the grille. I unscrewed the two screws at the top, at the bottom it just slides into a slit, if you know what I mean. I tried to put it back, but it didn't fit anymore, for some strange reason. The slit is clean, no debris or old steel needles in it. Because it fit in there when I bought it I guess I'm doing something wrong, or did the wood expand in the last couple of days?

Hard to say. Wood moves with moisture. You will have to look to see where it is binding.

bart1927 wrote:
- The metal. I understand that the tonearm, the needle cups, the needle container, the speed dial, the eskutcheon (I now have an original one) are made of brass. They would benefit from a little polish, I think, they look a little dull, and some of them even have a few rusty spots. How should I proceed? Should I use Brasso (metal polish), Coca Cola (anti-rust), or just leave it. I once polished a candle with Brasso, and it ended up bright and shiny, but after a couple of months the dullness returned. And since when you are polishing you are in fact removing a little layer, if you polish long enough it will be wearing thin.

Personal taste here. I like old metal to have a patina so I usually just try to remove any dirt and grease and not polish it up.

bart1927 · Post by **bart1927** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:16 am

Brad wrote:
bart1927 wrote: - The motor. Someone degreased and regreased it for me, and it's running rather smooth now, but I do hear the occasional little bump now and then. It's not as bad as it used to be, when I first got it the bumps were more severe and occurred more often. Are those little bumps now and then harmless or not, and do they mean I need new springs?
The bumps are most likely caused by thickened grease inside the spring barrel(s). I personally don't think they are a problem and I find that is you use the machine a lot, the frequency and severity will reduce. I would suggest the you wind up the machine and observe the spring barrels and works to make sure that the bumps are not something binding or worn gears.

It can't be the old graphite grease, since the motor and spring were cleaned and regreased by a professional only 3 days ago. I sat with the removed motorboard on my lap, the motor facing upwards, wound it, and watched everything spin. For the most time it runs smooth and without any noise, the spring barrel is also turning but very, very slow. Ocassionally it stops, you hear a little bump, and then it starts moving again. So my guess is that it has something to do with the springs, maybe they don't alway unwind properly.

But thanks for the advice. I will try to find some cotton cleanser, though I'm not sure what the dutch equivalent is.

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:17 pm

"For the most time it runs smooth and without any noise, the spring barrel is also turning but very, very slow. Ocassionally it stops, you hear a little bump, and then it starts moving again."

That's a pretty accurate description of the way my VV-XI behaves. In addition, on windup it consistently bumps at about the 19th revolution of the crank (or "winding key" in Victorspeak). This motor and springs have been cleaned and lubed professionally, so I'm prepared to believe that what we have here is normal behavior, especially as the machine functions perfectly, with very little noise, and will play out well over 8 minutes on a single windup (it's a two-spring motor) and at constant speed. I should add that on my machine, the two springs are in separate barrels and I can see how each one behaves: the barrel with the toothed gear wheel turns steadily at all times, driving the turntable gear through the governor, while the other barrel behaves as you described above.

eefrath · Post by **eefrath** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:50 pm

Beste Bart,
vorige week toevallig ook een HMV130 in UK gekocht; heerlijk machine!
Ik vrees dat er een hobby gaat ontstaan, dit was een leuke impuls aankoop in een semi antiek zaakje.

Ik ben nu alleen op zoek naar wat info; heb jij toevallig een kopie van de originele gebruikers handleiding (als die al bestaat)? Ik wil nl. meer gevoel krijgen bij het opdraaien van de veer; moet nu ca 20 rondjes draaien voor een LP terwijl de man in de winkel zei dat 2 wel voldoende was...

Wellicht kan je me helpen; jouw problemen zijn die opgelost??

Grt

Eric Rath

bart1927 · Post by **bart1927** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:18 pm

eefrath wrote:Beste Bart,
vorige week toevallig ook een HMV130 in UK gekocht; heerlijk machine!
Ik vrees dat er een hobby gaat ontstaan, dit was een leuke impuls aankoop in een semi antiek zaakje.

Ik ben nu alleen op zoek naar wat info; heb jij toevallig een kopie van de originele gebruikers handleiding (als die al bestaat)? Ik wil nl. meer gevoel krijgen bij het opdraaien van de veer; moet nu ca 20 rondjes draaien voor een LP terwijl de man in de winkel zei dat 2 wel voldoende was...

Wellicht kan je me helpen; jouw problemen zijn die opgelost??

Grt

Eric Rath

Hoi Eric, ik heb helaas geen kopie van de originele gebruikershandleiding, maar gelukkig is het apparaat niet zo ingewikkeld. Twee keer rond draaien is absoluut onvoldoende. De HMV 130 heeft een dubbele veermotor, als deze volledig afgewonden is moet ik ongeveer 35 a 40 rondjes draaien voordat de veren weer helemaal opgewonden zijn. Je merkt snel genoeg wanneer dit het geval is, al windende voel je geleidelijk meer weerstand, als deze op een gegeven moment erg groot wordt, moet je stoppen.

Op een volledig opgewonden veer kan je ongeveer 3 tot 4 plaatkanten draaien (van een 25 cm plaat).

Mijn problemen zijn opgelost. Jelle Attema in Haarlem heeft de motor schoongemaakt en van nieuw vet voorzien, hard geworden grafietvet is een bekend euvel bij HMV machines. De 5A weergever heb ik via via bij iemand in de UK laten reviseren, maar ik draai mijn platen eigenlijk meestal met een later aangeschafte 5B weergever, die er werkelijk als nieuw uitziet en klinkt.

Op Ebay heb ik een stuk origineel speakerdoek gekocht, afkomstig van een Victrola. Het is identiek aan de door HMV gebruikte doek, helaas is het in de afgelopen 80 jaar verkleurd, zodat je nog kan zien waar de oude grille ervoor heeft gezeten.

Met lp's bedoel je hopelijk 78 toeren platen? Op de HMV mogen alleen 78 toeren schellak platen worden afgespeeld. (En gebruik voor iedere plaatkant een nieuwe stalen naald!)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1-uACXLDSk[/youtube]

1926CredenzaOwner · Post by **1926CredenzaOwner** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:58 am

bart1927 · Post by **bart1927** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:53 am

1926CredenzaOwner wrote:
Op Ebay heb ik een stuk origineel speakerdoek gekocht, afkomstig van een Victrola. Het is identiek aan de door HMV gebruikte doek, helaas is het in de afgelopen 80 jaar verkleurd, zodat je nog kan zien waar de oude grille ervoor heeft gezeten.
I wonder if you could dye that grille cloth back to the original color without destroying it in the process? That would be a last resort, I know.

Someone advised my to use a mixture of coffee and tea, and I tried it on a leftover piece of the same cloth. The whole thing tuned darker overall, but the difference between the darker and lighter parts was still visible. So I guess I will have to live with it. Or, I can remove it and replace it with a niece piece of reproduction cloth I have still lying around the house.

villanueva · Post by **villanueva** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:07 am

Hi Bart,
I know this post is old, but you have the manual for this model?
I'm from Spain and can not find it here.
I have also the same model and am very happy with it.
Thanks for everything, sincerely,
Villanueva, Spain

syncopeter · Post by **syncopeter** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:51 pm

The model 130 has a kind of 'automatic' stop on the winding mechanism, preventing you to overwind it. Bart1927's one was formerly mine, but was stripped of its original and very good model 5a soundbox, when my collection was bought as lot sale by a trader. I bought it without the grill cloth, because back then it was already very hard to get a decent looking replacement.
As for a user manual, any oiling instruction for an HMV motor will do.