Composition of Oak Finishes on HMV 163 and 193

[Garret]

Hello,

Does anyone know how the finishes on the oak HMV gramophones was constructed, and of what it was composed? Did HMV ever state how the finish was done on its later oak gramophones? Was it lacquer on top of stained oak, or was it a tinted wax finish on top of unstained oak? I'm just curious.

Garret

[Jacob Black]

Garret, it depens on the model and year of production.

There are original leflets with the discription that a 163 has a wax finish and in an other leaflet it is discribed as a (best) satin finish.

Have a look here. There has been a discussion about the same topic http://grammophon-platten.de/e107_plugi ... p?22127.30

I would prefer best satin finish which should be a nitro laquer.

[Garret]

Jacob,

Thank you for sharing those pamphlet pages! It appears that the earlier oak HMV 163 had a wax finish, and I do indeed have the earlier version. This would make a lot of sense, and could explain why the top, front, and other portions of my oak HMV 163 are quite light, and the rest of the cabinet is still quite dark. The finish on mine certainly isn't a lacquer or shellac finish, but rather appears to be something different. I hope to restore it in due time!

If anyone else has further thoughts, I'd love to hear them!

Garret

[Steve]

Garret

HMV never really used any "wax" finishes; the reference to "wax finish" was more than slightly misleading! All late period HMV cabinets with oak veneer did have some form of "liquid" applied finish. It is quite a hard finish and contains the pigment that gives the cabinet its depth of colour. It is virtually impossible to replicate the colour today. I have tried dozens of products and nothing comes close! I think it was some kind of varnish that was thinly applied with brush and spray gun. The 202 has the same finish and on my machine you can see brush drag marks around the difficult areas ie curved mouldings etc. Elsewhere very fine "orange peel" textures can be spotted under a powerful artificial light implying that the same finish was also spray applied. It is NOT a nitro lacquer though as it is inconsistent with the finish HMV spray applied to their mahogany machines of the same period. These also had a much deeper piano gloss shine. The "varnish" on the oak cabinets is slightly more "satin" and thinner. You can buy pigmented varnishes today but they are pretty awful to use and are all the wrong colour. I did refinish the lid to a 157 once and the closest I came to matching the original finish was by staining the bare veneer first using my own colour "matched" mix and then by spraying with cellulose! When I had built a sufficient thickness up I then used a sanding block to cut the finish down to a perfectly smooth and flat surface. With two coats of clear wax on top it did look the part but in certain lights the difference in colour was very noticeable. In others you'd swear the top was original and untouched!

HTH

Steve

[Retrograde]

Garret, have you considered using Danish Oil (Watco or similar brand). I know it's probably not what the factory used, but it does come in a variety of tints and dries hard in a satin-like finish. Then maybe apply a wax over that.

(disclaimer: I'm not an expert on finishes)

[Garret]

Garret, have you considered using Danish Oil (Watco or similar brand). I know it's probably not what the factory used, but it does come in a variety of tints and dries hard in a satin-like finish. Then maybe apply a wax over that.

(disclaimer: I'm not an expert on finishes)

Thank you for the thoughts, but I'm not sure that would work.