Columbia Cylinder machine 2/4 minute attachment HELP!!

[gsphonos]

I have 2 Columbia BK's (same as the BQ machine--but with different reproducer carriage) with the addition of the 2/4 minute gearing. I have been unsuccessful in getting either machine to work in 4 minute mode. Does anyone have any experience working with this setup? With what I am looking at it looks like this would be a REALLY temperamental setup, that may need constant adjustment to keep it working right. There are instructions for installing 2/4 minute attachments on Edison machines. But, I have found NOTHING about converting a Columbia machine, such as a BK or BKT or BQ. One of the machines I have is the Oxford version of the BK, sold by SEARS, with a plain case and lid and no decal. The other is the BK with the more fancy Columbia case with decals. Does anyone have a copy of the installation instructions for the 2/4 minute gearing on these machines?? I REALLY would love to get these going. I have a BVT, and am considering putting the backbracket and horn on my Sears BK--as it is drilled for a backbracket and originally would have been a BKT. I would much rather have the horn setup on a machine that can play 2 and 4 minute cylinders and which has a better reproducer! Any help/advice or copies of original literature would be GREATLY appreciated!!

Mike Sorter

[zapper]

Hi Mike
I have a BO machine that I have been restoring for a few years now and recently had a similar problem remembering how parts went back together. (make sure you take plenty of photos before and after) I think the attachments are similar to yours, but if not I apologize for posting incorrect details. There is a lever on the opposite end to the gears. This is moved from 2 to 4 minute settings by lifting the sprung loaded lever underneath. When the lever is to the right the larger 2 gears should engage. When moved to the left the feedscrew gear should engage with the smaller gears(2) behind. These are positioned to mesh with this and the other gear. I have added some photos which I hope will show the set up. I am not sure if there is a leaflet about the 2/4 minute set up. Perhaps someone on the forum may help with a posting. Good Luck.
Regards Brian

[Phonofreak]

Hi Mike,
I have the the BQ, Sears Oxford BKT, and a regular BK. All have 2/4 min. gearing. This was installed in the factory. There is a lever towards the right by the feedscrew. To play 2 min. records, depress the clip, and move as far to the right as you can. To play 4 min. records, depress the clip and move as far to the left as you can. I never attempted to take the gearing apart because it worked. What is the problem with the 4 min. gearing? Maybe, it is not engaged all the way. I had that problem, and there was dirt in the way, that kept the lever from moving all the way. One last thing, do not take the bracket and arm off of your BVT to put on your BKT. The BVT arm and bracket is unique to the BVT and either won't work right, and will look funny on your BKT.
Harvey Kravitz

[gsphonos]

Thanks Brian and Harvey! Brian, your machine is exactly the same as mine. Thanks for the close up pics! Mine is out in the garage and it really couldn't easily be photographed, so I'm glad to see yours for comparison. I know how the lever works, and really how the gears are SUPPOSED to be engaged in 4 minute mode, but I can't get the adjustment right. I can turn the feedsrew by hand (going backwards) and can get the gears and mandrel to turn freely--but backwards! As soon as I try to turn the mandrel by hand, going in the correct direction, the gears stop engaging, and feedscrew will not turn. I have two exact setups, and I have swapped pieces out and tried to get things going and everything is the same--2 minute usually turns freely, but as soon as I engage the two little gear wheels--which puts it in 4 minute mode, I believe, the mechanism locks up or the gears don't catch. I will keep tinkering away. I even see in your picture of the 2 little gears that there is a "drag" mark on the bedplate itself where the 2 little gears have moved to the right. If the main screw holding in the gears isn't tight, those 2 little gears will want to move up. It really seems to be just a flimsy and unreliable mechanism, compared to the Edison 2/4 minute conversion kits!! It seems like I just can't get the adjustment right. I'll keep trying!

Harvey--haven't seen you at CAPS in a few years! Hope you'll come this year. I think the back bracket from my BVT is really from a BQ. I bought it from Jerry Blais a few years back--he was selling it for a friend. The cabinet was drilled to put on the backbracket, etc. and I think it was a recent addition. It is so easy just to take off and put on the other phonograph, I'm just going to see how it works out, and then maybe post some pics to see if it looks correct! But, none of this will be done until I can figure out that TRICKY gearing! Still hoping someone will be able to find some literature on the conversion kits put on these models of Columbia machines. I am also interested in finding the 2/4 minute gearing addition for my Columbia BF. Think that would really be neat to have on that machine!

Mike

[Curt A]

I found the problem. It is the little double gear cluster mounted on a small plate. It needs to stay in approx. the 7:00 position to mesh with the feedscrew gear in 4 minute mode as shown in the above picture. My problem was that someone put them in upside down in the 11:00 position and they were feeding off of the top of the feedscrew gear rather than the bottom and thus causing the feedscrew to run in reverse. The main issue with the gear cluster is that it is only held in place with the same screw that holds the large gear that runs off of the mandrel. It really needs a pin or screw to hold it in the correct position. I fixed mine temporarily with a piece of automotive double stick tape. The lever to change 2/4 minute mode should be to the left for 4 minute and all the way to the right for 2 minute.

[Curt A]

This is a permanent fix for the problem...

[gsphonos]

Hi Curt!! I am glad you got yours going. That is what I thought was happening with yours--I just couldn't describe it. If the screw isn't tight on those gears, they swing around to that 11:00 position. I agree, a pin is a great idea!! The only problem with mine--still--even when I have everything lined up correctly, I still cannot get the feedscrew to turn! What is weird is that I can turn the feedscrew using two fingers IN THE OPPOSITE direction, and the mandrel will turn (albeit backwards!) However, when I turn the mandrel in the correct direction, I get jammed or the gears don't turn, and when I try to turn the feedscrew with 2 fingers in the right direction, the same thing happens...nothing! I have changed out the 2 little gears and gone back and forth and still nothing. When you put yours back together, did it actually work playing a cylinder through?? And, is the "left" position of the lever for 4 minute and the "right" for 2 minute?

Thanks--and I hope yours will keep on working (knock on wood)!

Mike

[Curt A]

Mike, I had the same gear mesh problem until I positioned the two small gears, without the large gear attached. Once I got the feedscrew gear to mesh with the two small ones and move freely in both directions, I scribed a line along each side of the plate that holds the two gears, so I knew exactly where it should be. Then I wiped the area and the plate with alcohol and used automotive double stick tape to ensure that they would stay put. I did have issues when I had both the two gears and the larger gear screwed down... once the large gear was removed, it worked correctly. Mine is now playing very well in both 2 and 4 minute modes. Lever to the left - 4 minute. All the way to the right - 2 minute.
Curt

[gsphonos]

Thanks Curt!! I will give that a try. Sounds good. Glad yours is working!

Mike

[Curt A]

Mike, I also noticed that when I removed the two small gears & plate, that there seemed to be an old spot of what appeared to be beeswax... maybe that is what they originally used to keep it in place.