Columbia 5'' Chinese cylinder?

[wtt11]

There is a Columbia Chinese cylinder sold on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121309132838?ss ... 1423.l2649

Does Columbia ever produce Chinese Grand cylinder? Or it might be an early home recording?

[Joe_DS]

To my Western ears, it sounds pretty horrible:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47Ft4zRtnqY[/youtube]

In any event, it's not exactly something I'd be prone to hum.

I spotted a few mentions of Edison 2-minute cylinder Chinese records -- http://cylinders.library.ucsb.edu/searc ... @attr+1=21 Nothing, so far, about Columbia foreign language Concert Grand records.

The "Columbia" cylinder recording has a very "home made" sound to it, but it's really hard to tell. It would have helped if the microphone would have been kept aimed at the horn's mouth, instead of hovering above and around the machine.

The cylinder, itself, is a very odd color -- a lot lighter in color than those I've seen over the years. Also, with the exception of the chip on the end, in a lot better condition.

Joe

[wtt11]

Hi Joe,

I agree with. This Concert record might not be a great historical discovery. The rarity may also result from the relatively low purchasing power of immigrants, which was not lucrative enough for Columbia to issue superior 5'' cylinder in their language. Just guess. . .

[Joe_DS]

In case you haven't seen it, this page provides a pretty good run down on the early Chinese language recordings produced by Columbia, Victor, Edison, etc. --

http://www.capsnews.org/apn2008-1.htm

Joe

[edisonphonoworks]

I have seen quite a few light colored Graphophone Grand cylinders, just more virgin compound, not any different composition, I have made ones that color, The problem is the lighter colored cylinders tend to be more brittle in my experience as on a molecular level they are still slightly crystalin and tend to be noisier that wax that is cooked more, however you get a crisper sound from the lighter blanks. The recording sounds very field like. Perhaps this is a field recording. Charley Hummel had some interesting collection of anthropological Chinese cylinders, that were even on home made blanks, they looked like the early ones I made, they were a cream color. Historically I think they are significant for ethnology studies. Which is what many of my records are used for.

[wtt11]

[quote="edisonphonoworks"]I have seen quite a few light colored Graphophone Grand cylinders, just more virgin compound, not any different composition, I have made ones that color, The problem is the lighter colored cylinders tend to be more brittle in my experience as on a molecular level they are still slightly crystalin and tend to be noisier that wax that is cooked more, however you get a crisper sound from the lighter blanks. The recording sounds very field like. Perhaps this is a field recording. Charley Hummel had some interesting collection of anthropological Chinese cylinders, that were even on home made blanks, they looked like the early ones I made, they were a cream color. Historically I think they are significant for ethnology studies. Which is what many of my records are used for.[/quote]

Thanks for your information. Would darker color derive from heating longer or adding dye? I'm not specializing in recording. Anyway, I'm just wonder whether the music on the Concert cylinder especially for early white one can be dated earlier than 1902 when Edison first issued black wax Chinese record? If this is a case, accordingly, normal size Chinese cylinders may also exist in Columbia title or so. Now, back again. The key appears to determine whether those recordings were factory made since, as you said, distinguishing original from home recording might not be an easy work due to the same poor qualities.

[edisonphonoworks]

The same exact formula under a normal factory setting is pretty constant, the color though, is not. Color has to do with how long the wax is cooked, how hot it got, how many times it was reheated, and how much scrap wax was around. No scrap wax around, the cylinders are the first couple in the batch, may be white or cream, after a week the same wax will be almost black, same batch, same formula. The Edison 1900 How to Use it book states that "Cylinders vary in color from white to dark brown caused by varying conditions in the process of making." Below is a photo to show you that, although all of these cylinders are the same exact formula they are not the same color.

[mariof]

Hi Sean, thanks for posting about the various colours. I recall you saying something about the batches and how long they cooked for on here or perhaps another forum a number of years ago.

I'm the seller of this 5" Cylinder on ebay and obviously I believe it's quite a rarity. I chose not to play the record all the way through on the video... Because let's face it those interested in the content instead of the artifact have to bid to get it As the old saying goes who buys the cow if they get the milk for free??

Hoping to get some good international interest on this one!!!

Cheers,
Mario

Ps. Happy to answer any questions

[mariof]

Hi Sean

You mentioned Chinese cylinders that Charlie Hummel had/has. Are they standard sized or 5" also?

Cheers,
Mario

[edisonphonoworks]

They were standard size (4 ¼) thin, around 2.130" thick at the most and cream colored, wax, they were smooth bore, and crude, both thick and thin ends were flat and un even and looked like field made blanks, they smelled similar to Columbia wax. And were all in metal tins with cotton batting. They reminded me of a formula I used from WORK Magazine 1910. that I used in early 2000=2002 that was stearic acid, hydrated aluminum and paraffin.