Making shellac 78's in the 21st Century ?

[De Soto Frank]

I apologize if this subject has already had forum time devoted to it...

Has anyone explored or even attempted to produce old-fashioned shellac 78's capable of being played on pre-1930's acoustic phonographs ?


I believe there are folks pressing specialty 78's on vinyl, but that won't work on the Victrola.


Judging from a circa 1940 RCA-Victor film, their process was quite complex, but in the wonderful 21st century, shouldn't it be reasonably possible for someone to develop a cottage industry for shellac discs ?

There are some great artists performing today, such as Vince Giordano, Max Raabe, and Hudson Shad, to name a few, who perform music of the '20's & '30's... it would be wonderful to play their music on vintage talking machines...

How crazy is this notion ?

[HisMastersVoice]

Sorry, not terribly relevant, but...

This reminded me of a Photoshopped image I did back in 2012...

gaga-gold-mould.jpg (32.83 KiB) Viewed 2457 times

[De Soto Frank]

Well, maybe not super-relevant, but there ARE several folks out there making new cylinder records, playable on acoustic equipment... the "hard part" is achieving the blanks themselves; recording is a fairly "simple" process.


The disc process is more involved... still... the folks pressing vinyl records have to go through the same process with a matrix / mother / stomper... so, the equipment and technology to do all that exists... how about changing the groove size and pitch, and the material from vinyl to shellac...

[emgcr]

Please do not apologise---that is an extremely interesting and relevant question and one I have often thought about---not crazy at all in my view. Wouldn't it be fun to produce new 78s---and a source of endless challenge and enjoyment ?!

As you point out, the original processes were tremendously complex and capital/labour intensive tending to make such a venture in 2014 prohibitively expensive and seemingly impossible, especially in view of a virtually non-existant world-wide market. However, who knows what demand might develop should a new cheap technology allow ?

There are many very clever people out there so who knows.................one day !! I would support them all the way. Maybe there is a new composite material which could be used for the stamped end product ? I am sure the metal stamper itself could be "written" by computer---particularly as CDs are very similar in terms of "hill and dale" technology. I have an original copper/chrome plated stamper here which I have always intended experimenting with to produce a playable disc made from dark chocolate. There must be other, more appropriate, materials ?

[VintageTechnologies]

To play a new 78 record on a Victrola with pointed needles requires a material hard enough to withstand wear and shellack remains the most obvious choice despite the complexity and expense that would be required to press one. However, it occurred to me that Pathé-style disks would be another matter. I think cast resin records would stand up to the ball sapphire pretty well.

[Orchorsol]

Does anyone have any information on mixing techniques for the mineral-filled shellac that 78s were pressed from?

I worked for some years as the formulation chemist in a rubber and plastics compounding and moulding company, and would love to be involved in or contribute to such a project.

[tomwil]

Probably the most economical way of producing records today is bringing back the recordable records, such as the Speak-O-Phone or Repeat-a-Voice. That way, anyone can record anything to play back on their vintage machines.

[Kryptosmaster]

I'd bet anything that most of the stuff used to make a shellac record is now classified as a toxin or cancer agent or something "environmentally unfriendly" so as to make the use of such materials so exhorbitantly expensive that it wouldn't be worth it to even try.

[Phototone]

Cutting the master acetate, plating, making master/mother/stampers is basically the same as it was from the beginning for modern vinyl records or shellac records. The only mechanical difference is groove size. Cutting a wider groove should not be an insurmountable problem, probably a custom cutting stylus would be needed if no NOS examples exist. While the process of cutting an acetate has become more automated, and of course the cutter heads are stereo, it is still not really "different".

The metal stampers don't care what material you use to make the final record. Vinyl or "Shellac". The stamping press can accept either material with adjustments to heating and cool down cycles. Probably there are presses still in use that were used to stamp "shellac" based records.

The only issue, I see, is to come up with a viable formula for the compound, and have an agreeable record plant willing to use it.

[Phototone]

Another idea would be to revive a material such as Durinoid, used for Hit of the Week records. They seem to have held up quite well to playback with steel needle machines. I have hundreds and not a single one has excessive groove wear.