Broken pawl... probably not an original??

[lordmgls]

Hi everybody! This is my first topic on the forum!

Some months ago I bought a HMV 103 and shortly thereafter decided it was looking too dull and I needed to do something about it. I'm not describing the details because some of you would probably send me off for execution Long story told short, after I had the #426 motor cleaned up, greased and reassembled, I gave it a full wind and the handle suddenly started rotating backwards like mad. Obviously, the issue was the pawl. (I think it's also called ratchet).

Only then did I have a closer look at this part and realized it actually looked pretty shabby. That made me think it might be some ad hoc replacement by previous owners. Most gramophone motors have regular pawls but this one is different because it is meant to hold a helical gear - not a regular one. I've been googling for days and didn't find a single picture of this part!!!

The pawl was installed in a rather messy way [1]. That's why I wouldn't like to have someone copy this piece until I see the design of an original one, which might as well be completely different than mine! I would like my new pawl to last longer than the old one did - and I'm also afraid of not getting a perfect substitute as it could potentially cause further damage to the gear. (Yes, it did cause some slight damage...)

I really would appreciate any ideas, pictures or sketches. Pictures would be worth more than a thousand words

There are some pictures attached in a PDF so that you can see exactly what I'm talking about. In the last picture, the green arrow indicates the direction transmitted by the handle and the red arrow represents the direction the pawl should be blocking.

Now waiting for your original parts! Thanks for your help

Bruno

[Le0]

are you sure this helical gear belongs there? I don't think so...

[lordmgls]

are you sure this helical gear belongs there? I don't think so...

Oh!! it does! ;D This plan (please find it in attach) was inside the box - it's an original one - but I didn't include it because it has no representation of the pawl! It has an helical gear. You can also compare these pictures to those of HMV 102 or 101's motors, which also feature helicals.

Don't let this trick you into thinking there should be no pawl though - this mechanism ought to exist in the same place as it was in my motor. One can confirm with other motor #246 pictures the screw is always there. For instance, in this picture I found from a previous Ebay auction, you can clearly see the corresponding screw.

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/HMV-426-Gramopho ... ylYZR5V9L/$(KGrHqF,!qEFHgH5BFepBR5V9LlDcQ~~60_12.JPG

In some of the 101 and 102 pictures, you can see there's something but the pictures aren't clear enough. Plus once can't be sure of whether the original 103 has the same mechanism.

[Phono48]

Sorry to say, your motor has been interfered with! There is no pawl on HMV motors. The winding shaft rotates within a coiled spring, which opens as the handle is turned clockwise, and contracts when the handle tries to go backwards, thus gripping the handle and preventing it turning. These springs are available, and are very easily fitted.
Picture shows one in a 102 motor.

Barry

[lordmgls]

Sorry to say, your motor has been interfered with! There is no pawl on HMV motors. The winding shaft rotates within a coiled spring, which opens as the handle is turned clockwise, and contracts when the handle tries to go backwards, thus gripping the handle and preventing it turning. These springs are available, and are very easily fitted.
Picture shows one in a 102 motor.

Barry

Hi Barry! Thank you so much!
That little part really looked out of place! I wonder if this is a common intervention...
Anyway, my 103 does have the part you describe, but it must be out of order given the situation. (Picture below).
Can you tell me the name of this part and where I can buy it? Ebay? Best sellers? Any info would be appreciated! I have no idea of how to browse for this spring!!

Bruno

[Phono48]

Try this seller, if no luck, come back to me.
Tell him you need the non-return spring for the winding handle.


http://zwarteschijf.nl/

Barry

[lordmgls]

Hi guys! Just came back to thank Barry for his kind support. The supplier was great.

It's now two days since I've replaced the old spring by the new one. I've played about 10 records so far and the previous problem is now solved.

There are some pictures in attach displaying the old spring and the new one, which is a bit longer.

I hope this might be of use to someone else who is in trouble with his/her HMV's returning crank. Once again, thanks Barry!

Bruno

[Phono48]

It looks as though the loop of the old spring has broken off at some time, and the "repairer" has unwound a coil or two to make a new one, unsuccesfully!
I'm glad you've got it sorted, and that I was able to help.

Barry