What's the best Edison Diamond Disc stylus "angle of attack"

[pughphonos]

VT, I do hear you. Though I do argue that stylus angle can have some variability, I don't want to be too radical on the issue. You are right: a worn stylus will have a different "sweet spot" than normal--but then one must be careful as one might be on the edge of (or already) damaging one's records. When Larry Hollenberg visited me a few weekends ago he pointed out that my stylus seemed to be cutting my records--and I've ceased using it (and am now shopping around for a replacement). I don't think that that issue, though, detracts from the overall message: that it is fine to use one's ear in slightly angling the stylus to best effect. Another way of saying it is that I urge people to favor their ears over their eyes when making these adjustments.

At any rate, it has been quite educational for me these past few weeks to learn how to take apart a DD reproducer, to remove the stylus bar, to investigate the length of the link, and then to adjust them to best effect. I have no definitive answers; glad others too are interested in this quest.

[pughphonos]

Update time. As mentioned directly above, I had taken a break from playing my standard Edison Diamond Discs as Larry Hollenberg had shown me how to check if my stylus was damaging my records--and indeed it was.

As many of us know, this is a serious problem for the DD enthusiasts on this forum as there is no modern manufacturer of those styli who meets their standards. So I contacted one of my most reliable dealers, Ron Haring of Plano, Illinois--and lo and behold, he has a few styli that are probably New Old Stock (NOS). I visited him this morning to buy one (he sells them for $100) and he had one set up under his microscope so that I could see how pristine it was.

I now have the stylus on my standard reproducer. I immediately ran Larry's test and found that indeed no damage is occurring now that I have a NOS (or virtually NOS) stylus in place.

The diaphragm is the one I bought from Larry and have been raving about for some weeks now.

Though I sometimes get "radical" with my propositions here (at least in the minds of some), it doesn't mean that I don't take advice seriously (e.g. the current topic about "angle of attack"). I decided with this probable NOS to set it pretty squarely into the record--no twists of the linkage string--and it all sounds just wonderful. I stand by what I said above, however: one should take some liberty in adjusting the rake angle in order to find the "sweet spot" on any stylus.

It's a great feeling to get a machine to the point of maximal satisfaction, and that is now the case with my Schubert Edisonic.

Ron says he plans on getting busy on this forum, and it would be great if he does. But until then, don't hesitate to contact him with your phonograph needs; for sure, snatch up his great DD styli while you can. His contact info is:

Ron Haring
17024 Frazier Rd.
Plano, IL 60545
630-552-1558

I also continue to stick by my endorsement of Larry Hollenberg's diaphragm.

Ralph

[Tpapp54321]

as Larry Hollenberg had shown me how to check if my stylus was damaging my records--and indeed it was.

What is the test for checking the stylus? I just got a new Edison diamond disc reproducer and i would like to test it.
-Tom

[pughphonos]

as Larry Hollenberg had shown me how to check if my stylus was damaging my records--and indeed it was.

What is the test for checking the stylus? I just got a new Edison diamond disc reproducer and i would like to test it.
-Tom

Diamond Discs have a blank area between the last groove and the label area. Find a DD where that area is as unspoiled as possible: with no stylus tracing evident at all. Then play a record at its end; let the stylus leave the last groove and rotate for a minute or so. If the stylus is damaged, you will now see a light scoring in that blank area for as far as you let the stylus travel.

Hope this helps. If you don't mind, let us know how your test turns out.

Ralph

[larryh]

Ralph,

Its good to find that the sound is now corrected and your able to enjoy your records with a decent stylus.

Larry

[pughphonos]

Ralph,

Its good to find that the sound is now corrected and your able to enjoy your records with a decent stylus.

Larry

Thanks, Larry! It sure is.

[Tpapp54321]

UPDATE: I just got home and I am VERY happy to say that the original stylus didn't leave any marks on the run off. I think it played a part that the person I bought it from used the machine as decoration for forty years and never played it
-Tom

Sorry forgot this in my original post but I am going to rebuild my reproducer and I wanted to know if there is any tuning tricks or tips/warnings.

[pughphonos]

Tom, that is great news re. your stylus being in good shape. You dodged a bullet there.

As for the DD reproducer rebuild, I'll defer to others (re. techniques, materials, orientations). As you can see from this particular thread, there is some variance of opinion on just how the stylus should angle onto the record surface. Suit yourself.

If no one chimes in with an overview statement on how to rebuild a reproducer, ask some specific questions and perhaps that will get the ball rolling.

Ralph

P.S. I have just been told confidentially/diplomatically that, even if a record does not show a definite scoring in the run-off, excessive wear might still be occurring. I was further advised that the only way one can know for sure about a stylus is to view it under a microscope. The test I advocated above is better than nothing--but not the best way. This doesn't mean we all have to run off and buy microscopes, but we should identify experienced dealers who do have them (in my locality, Ron Haring does). Luckily it's an easy thing to package and mail a stylus bar for someone to do that kind of check.

[celticguitar666]

Glad to hear everyones machine is playing well
As for stylus rake I am a reader of Stereophile magazine and even in this day of so called superior building of cartridges and stylus there isn't a complete consensus of what the rake angle other than 92 degrees plus or minus so that means not exactly parallel to the surface of the record and with minor variations in the thickness of records it could change a percentage There isn't even a recognized book or source of what is an exact number just a suggested starting point due to variables in manufacturing. so minor adjustments may need to done to find your sweet spot according to Michael Femmer Mr Analog or there about you would have to read the article. It would interesting to know if this was ever discussed back in the day of the early hobbyists or it was just accepted fact
Cheers
Dwight

[OrthoSean]

P.S. I have just been told confidentially/diplomatically that, even if a record does not show a definite scoring in the run-off, excessive wear might still be occurring. I was further advised that the only way one can know for sure about a stylus is to view it under a microscope. The test I advocated above is better than nothing--but not the best way. This doesn't mean we all have to run off and buy microscopes, but we should identify experienced dealers who do have them (in my locality, Ron Haring does). Luckily it's an easy thing to package and mail a stylus bar for someone to do that kind of check.

The "run-off" test doesn't always work, Ralph, you're correct. My level of OCD with all of this went far back when the defective new styli started showing up. I had a couple that seemed fine and left no trail in the runout areas at all. One night I was playing some DDs on my C-19 with my proud new stylus and rebuilt reproducer thinking it just gets no better than this! I noticed after playing a perfectly mint DD after holding it up to the light that it displayed a weird pattern in the grooves. No line in the runout. I grabbed my high power flashlight and grabbed a rather boring yet mint DD and threw it on...as I held the light at an angle and watched, I could see a "trail" being left behind. Hard to describe, it wasn't really gray and certainly not brown. but it was wearing out the disc and I didn't like what I saw! I had others say it was a dirty disc (I clean all my records with proper stuff before I play them, so that was out), someone else suggested the rebuild wasn't right, it was. Later when the stylus went out to be checked, I got a digital photo back of it. There was a distinct crack and split in it. And this was a new stylus with maybe 15 or 20 plays on it.

I bought a couple of Ron Haring's NOS diamonds, but I haven't installed them yet. It's good news to hear you find them to be perfect!

Sean