SCHUBERT EDISONIC ON eBAY… (in 14 Separate Auctions)

pughphonos · Post by **pughphonos** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:57 am

VintageTechnologies wrote:Is anyone tracking the butcher's sale of parts to see if they exceed the value of an intact machine?

Hi Keith, I have been following it day by day and so far it appears that the total bids on parts are still under $250.00. This machine intact would easily fetch $1000.00. Being the owner of a Schubert that is not as well-preserved as the one this fellow just butchered, I certainly would be interested in things like the doors. But I will not bid as that would encourage the practice of parting out functional and intact machines. If even just a handful of Schubert owners take this stance, the bidding will be constrained enough so that he falls well short of what he would have realized if he had a) kept the machine intact and b) responded to the concerns of the collecting community.

As for the comment above that the dealer has a right to do what he did--sure, there is no law against it. But we in the community have a right to shame him as much as we can for his UNETHICAL behavior.

Ralph

P.S. Being unethical in business practices DOES come with an economic price--as there are buyers out there who want to support ethical practices (it's akin to not buying clothing from sweat shops). So, that butcher can do what he wants, but the rest of us are NOT compelled to buy from him just to promote his freedom to do what he wants. If we live in a dog-eat-dog world, then this is time for him to get a bite in the ....

P.P.S. I want to take my hat off to Valecnik for catching this particular atrocity--and to all ethical collectors who are our best eyes and ears for what's happening out there. I've been known in the past to mildly poke fun at "mass" collectors. I apologize for that. Now I see that big collectors largely deserve praise for a) keeping an eye out for the interests of the entire community; and b) saving and preserving machines so that they can escape (at least for awhile) the dangers of the open market.

brianu · Post by **brianu** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:51 am

welshfield wrote:Gawd...you can almost guarantee that in the midst of a discussion on historic preservation someone like Garret will jump in asserting his Constitutional rights to destroy historic artifacts. Do we need to remind him that no one has challenged his "right" to do so?

We, as a group of collectors of these machines, are expressing our dismay at the greed some people will exhibit to the extent that they are willing to destroy a historical artifact. Perhaps you are the vendor from BROCKPORT, NY, who maintains a large ebay store and who also disassembles machines to sell their parts. Or perhaps you are the ebay creature called Neelam who does the same. While we express our disgust with you and are dismayed by your actions, we do not challenge your "right" to act in this way.

ha. those are all actually different people, although I hesitate to refer as such to the "neelam."

brianu · Post by **brianu** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:04 pm

I've actually been in touch with this guy since noticing these auctions earlier in the week. he's only 20 or 30 minutes from me, if that, and I thought I might convince him to get this machine back together. during our limited interaction, I learned that apparently a lot of people have been contacting him and expressing their "dismay," so much so that he (as he pointed out in one of his last messages to me through ebay) decided to remove from the listing his "apology" to the collector community for doing what he did to this phonograph. I also learned the extent to which he dismantled this machine... basically, the only things not completely disassembled are the legs/lower support structure and the lid. he not only removed all the trim from the cabinet, but also took apart the cabinet itself, piece by piece, side by side, board by board. he sent me some photos of this so I could get a sense of what might be involved in putting it all back together. aside from the reproducer, which holds most of the value at this point and might sell for 100 or more, there's not much left - the motor and horn might go for 50 each. I asked him how much he'd want for everything, minus the reproducer. his response was that he'd sell it to me, but wanted me to make an offer. so I did, of about 150 (again, for all but the reproducer), while telling him it easily would have been worth five to six times as much if he hadn't done what he did... I mean, this will take substantial work reassembling it, while also repairing the damage caused by the way he took it apart. in any event, I haven't heard back from him since that offer. maybe it was unreasonably low?

Valecnik · Post by **Valecnik** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:23 pm

brianu wrote:I've actually been in touch with this guy since noticing these auctions earlier in the week. he's only 20 or 30 minutes from me, if that, and I thought I might convince him to get this machine back together. during our limited interaction, I learned that apparently a lot of people have been contacting him and expressing their "dismay," so much so that he (as he pointed out in one of his last messages to me through ebay) decided to remove from the listing his "apology" to the collector community for doing what he did to this phonograph. I also learned the extent to which he dismantled this machine... basically, the only things not completely disassembled are the legs/lower support structure and the lid. he not only removed all the trim from the cabinet, but also took apart the cabinet itself, piece by piece, side by side, board by board. he sent me some photos of this so I could get a sense of what might be involved in putting it all back together. aside from the reproducer, which holds most of the value at this point and might sell for 100 or more, there's not much left - the motor and horn might go for 50 each. I asked him how much he'd want for everything, minus the reproducer. his response was that he'd sell it to me, but wanted me to make an offer. so I did, of about 150 (again, for all but the reproducer), while telling him it easily would have been worth five to six times as much if he hadn't done what he did... I mean, this will take substantial work reassembling it, while also repairing the damage caused by the way he took it apart. in any event, I haven't heard back from him since that offer. maybe it was unreasonably low?

Given the butchery committed on this machine, I think your offer of $150 for everything but the reproducer is fair and probably pretty close to what he might get for the sum total of all the other parts. He won't even get a bid on many of those auctions and those cabinet parts will end up in a fireplace or dumpster. It WOULD HAVE BEEN worth much more than $150 had he kept it together but even if carefully reassembled, there will be some damage that can't be easily repaired or hidden. Good luck. These types can be pretty hard to deal with. Why on earth would he even disassemble the gutted cabinet btw???

Valecnik · Post by **Valecnik** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:53 pm

brianu wrote:
welshfield wrote:Gawd...you can almost guarantee that in the midst of a discussion on historic preservation someone like Garret will jump in asserting his Constitutional rights to destroy historic artifacts. Do we need to remind him that no one has challenged his "right" to do so?

We, as a group of collectors of these machines, are expressing our dismay at the greed some people will exhibit to the extent that they are willing to destroy a historical artifact. Perhaps you are the vendor from BROCKPORT, NY, who maintains a large ebay store and who also disassembles machines to sell their parts. Or perhaps you are the ebay creature called Neelam who does the same. While we express our disgust with you and are dismayed by your actions, we do not challenge your "right" to act in this way.

ha. those are all actually different people, although I hesitate to refer as such to the "neelam."

I've sent the "neelam" many messages, usually noting that I need an item he's offering but won't be bidding on it because it's a cannibalized remnant of a complete machine. He used to try to explain. Now he doesn't reply any more. Some months back he parted out a totally complete and very clean F model Edison Standard. He's chopped up many since but that one was a particular shame.

Another picture of the ill fated piece below from one of the 14 eBAY listings.

Valecnik · Post by **Valecnik** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:01 pm

Additional illustrations of th Schubert Edisonic compliments of Mainspring Press.

brianu · Post by **brianu** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:54 pm

sorry for the terribly small photos - they were sent through ebay's message system and I couldn't figure out how to save them in a larger format. either way, they provide some idea of the before version, shown in one of the posts above, and the current state of this truly unfortunate machine.