Goofed again... which way does the spring go?

[snallast]

I changed one spring in this motor and then left the other one for later for some reason. Stupid! And no pictures either! The one I did change is fitted correctly, that I know.

Now I don't know which way the second spring goes? I understood the number 32 motor where the springs are fitted in opposite directions, but this motor is different perhaps?

Anyone have any idea / would you go for the red or the blue arrow? Thankful for advice!!

[VintageTechnologies]

I cannot offer any guarantees, but I think the springs would be wound opposite directions, so that in effect, they are linked and working via the common shaft in series, rather than in parallel.

[Phono48]

Surely if the two pins on the shaft are fixed, which they appear to be, then the two springs must go the same way, or one of them would come unhooked as you wind the mechanism?

[VintageTechnologies]

Surely if the two pins on the shaft are fixed, which they appear to be, then the two springs must go the same way, or one of them would come unhooked as you wind the mechanism?

Not necessarily. I think the springs are wound depending on how the two spring barrels are oriented relative to each other. Once both barrels are assembled with the common shaft running through them, are both openings facing each other, or are both facing in the same direction? The point is, I think both springs are wound in an orientation that they work as one long spring (two in series) rather than two shorter springs working in parallel.

One possible clue is to examine the hooks on the common shaft. The head of the pins (hooks) may overhang more on one direction than the other to hold the spring in place.

[snallast]

I opted for putting them in different directions - the shaft is not fixed (see pics) inside the shaft there is a second shaft that moves freely.

I had both springs attached and put everything together again - the motor runs - but it is unnaturally hard to wind, the springs seem awfully unflexible. So I took it apart again and the new spring looks bad - it's been warped in the middle / it does look like it's been wound the wrong way doesn't it?

God knows. Since the shaft isn't fixed, to my logics they should be put in opposite directions. I guess I'll have to try the same direction this time? Don't know if the spring is ruined yet.. Yes it would be smart to alwas take pictures. I searched on the forum on the topic of double spring Victor motors and someone said 9 out of 10 were wound in opposite directions, this then may me the 10th one...
any other guesses out there?

[snallast]

Yes I did examine the hooks but they give no clue at all, they look exactly alike all over...

[Bob]

Yeah, Looks like the wrong way. I would pull it out, use pliers and reshape the inner coil of the spring and install it the other way. It should be fine.

[JerryVan]

I agree, that looks like the wrong direction. It appears that 2nd spring is "driven", or wound, by the center arbor that is attached rigidly to the barrel of the 1st spring, (the one you already have installed). When that 1st spring is wound, it will turn the center arbor of the second clockwise, (as you've shown with your red arrow). The 2nd spring will need to be wound with its outer end pointing to the left, as viewed looking directly into the barrel. Besides, you can see the "witness" marks in the old crud still in the barrel that shows the outline of the old spring's outer end facing just that way.

[JerryVan]

God knows. Since the shaft isn't fixed, to my logics they should be put in opposite directions.

The SHAFT is not fixed, but the winding arbor IS, and that's what's important.

[snallast]

Yes indeed, they are to be mounted in the same direction, now it runs just fine albeit a bit noisily... so this is the anomaly of the HMV double-spring motors. Someone who fixed the fiberwheel (replaced it) told me it's the same motor as the "dog" model, a fairly early one. Could be - if one looks on the back there's the possibility of having the older type arm etc, maybe they had surplus boxes from the older ones and used them for the more functional newer arm and bracket. The plug is old and very professionally done.

Thanks for your advice and words!!