Needle holder on front-wind VV-50?

[FloridaClay]

My front wind VV-50, serial #48166, does not have the needle cups.

Clay

[whoopinola]

My Canadian VV-50 s/n 37934 , no needle holder

[Player-Tone]

Thanks, what about the reflecting horn, is it wood or full cast?

[Player-Tone]

Hello,
I thought I would revive this post after running across this HMV Canada VV-50 on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1924-OAK-VICTOR ... 19ec885425

....Yes, unfortunately the inside was painted red at some point... oh well.

The thing I was curious about, this one is serial number 'C-3849' on the ID plate. I am assuming the "C" represents Canada? I just thought it was interesting that this machine was made after my front wind HMV Canada VV-50 though it has a lower serial number. This one currently on eBay is the latest version from 1924.

Now I am curious, when they started stamping these plates with the 'C' was the serial number reset? Could mine actually be a newer one and they were just using up extra front wind cases?

-Does anybody have a Canadian VV-50 to share and possibly shed some light on this mystery,
Thanks

IDplate.jpg (40.37 KiB) Viewed 1218 times

My VV-50

MyVV-50.jpg (32.38 KiB) Viewed 1218 times

[phonojim]

There were at least 2 distinct types of front wind machines which look alike at first glance, but upon closer examination many subtle differences will be noted. The cases, some case parts, horns and motors are not interchangeable between the two types. I learned that the hard way. The first type had an all cast metal horn which came all the way to the mouth at motorboard level. The second style ended the metal part of the horn at the rear edge of the motorboard and used a curved wood block to direct the sound up and out of the mouth of the horn. Another difference in the two front crank versions is that the crank holes are in slightly different positions and the two motor/motorboard assemblies are not interchangeable. Officially Victor did not use the needle holder on front crank machines, but it is always possible that it found its way onto late production machines. There does not appear to have been a "transitional" version of the front crank VV-50 but there was a major design change within the model run. If you refer to The Victor Data Book, you will find answers to most of your questions there.

Jim

[Phonofreak]

I did notice on the latest pictures of the ebay VV 50, the wood looked different. It didn't look like the usual Oak or Mahogany. It looked like a plain hardwood similar to poplar. It definitely doesn't look like Walnut ether. I wonder if this wood is original or re-veneered?
Harvey Kravitz

[Player-Tone]

There were at least 2 distinct types of front wind machines which look alike at first glance, but upon closer examination many subtle differences will be noted. The cases, some case parts, horns and motors are not interchangeable between the two types. I learned that the hard way. The first type had an all cast metal horn which came all the way to the mouth at motorboard level. The second style ended the metal part of the horn at the rear edge of the motorboard and used a curved wood block to direct the sound up and out of the mouth of the horn. Another difference in the two front crank versions is that the crank holes are in slightly different positions and the two motor/motorboard assemblies are not interchangeable. Officially Victor did not use the needle holder on front crank machines, but it is always possible that it found its way onto late production machines. There does not appear to have been a "transitional" version of the front crank VV-50 but there was a major design change within the model run. If you refer to The Victor Data Book, you will find answers to most of your questions there.

Jim

Interesting, were these two distinct types being made at the same time? I saw a mahogany one similar to mine some time ago on Craigslist with the front crank, wood horn, and needle cups. Its serial number was also in the 5000's but it did not have and Canadian markings.

[Curt A]

Harvey,
I'm with you... the wood on the eBay machine does not appear to be oak and is definitely not mahogany - probably Poplar.

As far as the needle cups... in the 90+ years these machines have been around, an owner may have added them for convenience. If oddities show up, I don't automatically assume that they came from the factory that way. I have thought of doing that to mine, but refrained for originality reasons... However, it would be more useful with them attached.

[mikejk]

Here is the VV-50 that I brought home seven years ago. Front wind, Serial # 45386, with needle cups, and full cast horn, and sound box clip on the right side of motor board. OK,OK, I better come clean. This is the very situation that Curt A mentioned in his post. I have added the needle cups myself for convenience!

It is very helpful to have a built in place for carrying the needles. Mike

[Player-Tone]

I am still curious about why there were two distinct types of front wind VV-50s, the one with the full cast horn and the one with the wood reflector horn and different motor board as phonojim pointed out. That obviously wasn't a home made upgrade like the needle cup addition. So were these two different front-wind VV-50s being made at the same time or is the one I have a transitional version (considering all the newer side-wind VV-50s had the wood reflector horn).