Edison Triumph newbie questions.

[fran604g]

Well, it looks like in addition to the shipping issues, I have been the victim of plain old fashioned fraud. Got the following report about the top works back from George V today.

"Pretty cobbled up mess. The feed screw is marked Home B, the gearing only D which I think is OK and the mandrel I can not find a marking on. The shaft sure has been messed up though. Along with that big area that's been ground out the hole on the opposite side has been enlarged and drilled deeper. My initial guess is someone was trying to piece together something form odds and ends and not right ones at that. The collar is from a Model b like the feed screw. Now for the bad news. I do not have parts for the Triumphs, at least as far as I know, but I'll check before tossing in the towel."

I may be in search of a bunch of Triumph model D upper works parts it seems.

Clay

That stinks, sorry to hear, especially after you did such a nice job repairing the case! I hope there's some way to make it right without breaking the bank.

Fran

[FloridaClay]

Breathing a bit better today. George V, bless his ever resourceful soul, has managed to scrounge up most of the parts needed to replace the junk on the upper works, and is trying to track down the rest.

Meanwhile, the repro cygnet horn elbow is supposed to be delivered from Wyatt's today and Eduardo is working on the oak bell. When both are in hand, I will make sure no adjustment to the elbow is necessary to make it fit the bell and then send the elbow off for grain painting.

Clay

[pughphonos]

George Vollema is one of the most conscientious antique phonograph dealers/repairmen out there. I hope he knows how deeply he is appreciated. When/if he retires it will be a serious blow to the hobby.

[FloridaClay]

George Vollema is one of the most conscientious antique phonograph dealers/repairmen out there. I hope he knows how deeply he is appreciated. When/if he retires it will be a serious blow to the hobby.

I totally agree. I just told him in an email how very much I appreciate the outstanding service he has given me in this and other situations. He has gone the extra mile for me more than once.

Clay

[Valecnik]

Breathing a bit better today. George V, bless his ever resourceful soul, has managed to scrounge up most of the parts needed to replace the junk on the upper works, and is trying to track down the rest.

Meanwhile, the repro cygnet horn elbow is supposed to be delivered from Wyatt's today and Eduardo is working on the oak bell. When both are in hand, I will make sure no adjustment to the elbow is necessary to make it fit the bell and then send the elbow off for grain painting.

Clay

I'm glad this is on the way to becoming a running machine that you'll enjoy. You started out with quite a mess!

[FloridaClay]

The upper works are back from George V, I've made a new belt for it and adjusted the speed. It is alive again. Yea!

It is pretty quiet in terms of gear noise and such, but I can feel thumps when my hands are on the case and can hear some of them, so springs are likely sticking and releasing. Is there any sort of lubricant I could try putting through the openings in the spring barrel end plates that might free it without creating a dripping mess, or should I just bite the bullet and send the motor away for a rebuild.

Clay

[phonogfp]

I can feel thumps when my hands are on the case and can hear some of them, so springs are likely sticking and releasing. Is there any sort of lubricant I could try putting through the openings in the spring barrel end plates that might free it without creating a dripping mess, or should I just bite the bullet and send the motor away for a rebuild.

Clay

Okay, I'll take my life into my hands here...

I once had this problem with a Triumph, and - having re-greased all 3 mainsprings in another Triumph once, I was eager to find an effective alternative. It seemed to me that I needed something that would break down that hardened graphite/vaseline gunk without destroying its lubricating properties. Something analogous to adding a little lacquer thinner to a certain 30 year-old can of gold paint I use for pinstriping. With nothing to lose, I tried squirting a bit of good old WD-40 into those Triumph spring barrels. Maybe ½ a teaspoon into each barrel (the center one is tough). Then I wound up the motor COMPLETELY and let it run down.

It chugged. I wound the motor COMPLETELY a second time. It chugged. A third time. Maybe a fourth time. No chugging! That was back in 2001, and it's been fine ever since.

It did drip for awhile, but I expected that and placed several layers of newspaper in the bottom of the cabinet. Within a short time, there were no more drips.

There's not much for which I recommend WD-40 beyond displacing moisture. But this worked for me on a Triumph B. Your mileage may vary. Good luck!

(I should mention that this trick failed me on at least one occasion. But I added a bit of 20 weight oil to the spring barrel, and that did the trick. Clearly, much depends upon the type of mainspring lubricant used, and how dried out it is.)

George P.

[FloridaClay]

I can feel thumps when my hands are on the case and can hear some of them, so springs are likely sticking and releasing. Is there any sort of lubricant I could try putting through the openings in the spring barrel end plates that might free it without creating a dripping mess, or should I just bite the bullet and send the motor away for a rebuild.

Clay

Okay, I'll take my life into my hands here...

I once had this problem with a Triumph, and - having re-greased all 3 mainsprings in another Triumph once, I was eager to find an effective alternative. It seemed to me that I needed something that would break down that hardened graphite/vaseline gunk without destroying its lubricating properties. Something analogous to adding a little lacquer thinner to a certain 30 year-old can of gold paint I use for pinstriping. With nothing to lose, I tried squirting a bit of good old WD-40 into those Triumph spring barrels. Maybe ½ a teaspoon into each barrel (the center one is tough). Then I wound up the motor COMPLETELY and let it run down.

It chugged. I wound the motor COMPLETELY a second time. It chugged. A third time. Maybe a fourth time. No chugging! That was back in 2001, and it's been fine ever since.

It did drip for awhile, but I expected that and placed several layers of newspaper in the bottom of the cabinet. Within a short time, there were no more drips.

There's not much for which I recommend WD-40 beyond displacing moisture. But this worked for me on a Triumph B. Your mileage may vary. Good luck!

(I should mention that this trick failed me on at least one occasion. But I added a bit of 20 weight oil to the spring barrel, and that did the trick. Clearly, much depends upon the type of mainspring lubricant used, and how dried out it is.)

George P.

Thanks George. I will give it a shot. Not much to loose really and I can't see overhauling a Triton motor myself in the kitchen of my condo. The worst that could happen would be I'd have to send it off to be done, which I for sure would have to do absent another remedy.

Clay

[FloridaClay]

Progress. It is so quite it is eerie most of the time. There is still some occasional bumping, but it is greatly reduced.--by about three quarters I would say. I will run in through a couple more wind up/run down cycles tomorrow, perhaps adding a bit more WD40. (The propellant in the can I used tonight was about gone, so it stopped working fairly quickly.)

On another topic, the stripes/decoration on the upper bedplate are in pretty decent condition. Much of the decoration on the lower bedplate was just crude junk that (fortunately) wiped right off. Some good clear pictures of what the bedplate on a Triumph D is supposed to look like would be much appreciated so I know what decals to get. Recommendations for the best source for those will also be appreciated. (I will also be looking through George and Tim's books to see if I can find some pics there.)

Clay

[phonogfp]

Progress. It is so quite it is eerie most of the time. There is still some occasional bumping, but it is greatly reduced.--by about three quarters I would say. I will run in through a couple more wind up/run down cycles tomorrow, perhaps adding a bit more WD40. Some good clear pictures of what the bedplate on a Triumph D is supposed to look like would be much appreciated so I know what decals to get. Recommendations for the best source for those will also be appreciated. (I will also be looking through George and Tim's books to see if I can find some pics there.)

Clay

I'm glad the WD-40 seems to be working for you. Keep your fingers crossed and keep working those mainsprings...

As for the Triumph decorations, you'll find decent photos of them on page 180 of The Talking Machine Compendium and on page 108 of Discovering Antique Phonographs. The original Triumph corner decorations were done by hand so slight variations are common.

I recommend Gregg Cline's decals, since they are obviously copies of a hand-done original with tiny eccentricities as found on original decorations. Just tell Gregg you're looking for the gilt decorations for a Triumph D and he will know what you need. (The decorations didn't evolve on the Triumph models.) You'll need a Trade Mark signature decal of the late (1908 and later) pattern too, as you'll see in the first photo referenced above.

George P.