Help with replicating decorative trim on a phonograph?

[FellowCollector]

I recently purchased a high end floor model with lots of decorative trim on the front and sides. Unfortunately, through the years some of the cabinet trim pieces (including curved ones with swirls) apparently loosened, dislodged and were discarded . The good news is that for most if not all of the missing trim pieces there are other pieces that remain intact that can be used to make a mold for those that are missing. Problem is that I've never tried this procedure. Has anyone here ever used molding clay with epoxy to fabricate missing trim pieces on a phonograph or other wood cabinet with any success? I know that Eric Reiss explains this in his book but I would prefer to hear details from anyone who has actually done this with success.

The concept of applying clay to decorative trim that later hardens and can be used as a mold is plausible and makes perfect sense - but how to remove it without damage to either the cabinet surface or the mold itself? Naturally, I could take the easy (and expensive) way out and deliver the cabinet to an experienced wood restorer and wait for it. But I thought it would be both interesting and beneficial to give it a try on my own. Nothing ventured nothing gained. If I fail then at least I have tried.

Thanks, in advance, to anyone who will share their working experience in doing this.

Doug

[Phonofreak]

Hi Doug,
Here is what I do: I get the part that needs to be duplicated and coat with a thin layer of Vaseline. Make sure the coating is thin so you don't obliterate any fine details. The Vaseline will act as a release agent. Use RTV silicone seal and put on a thick coat on the part. Make sure the part is completely covered. Let the RTV cure for a day or two. When dry and cured, the RTV will peel right off. Then use 2 part epoxy resin to duplicate the part. For the rest, follow Reiss's book to glue and paint the part. I use this method for making model parts. The RTV mold is flexible and can be used over again. I don't like the clay method because it can only be used once. Besides making model parts, I made missing rope molding, and other intricate molding pieces. Good luck and let us know how it works.
Harvey Kravitz

[FellowCollector]

Thanks for your reply on this, Harvey. In fact, when I received it I was walking around Hobby Lobby looking at their clay products. I asked a clerk if they carried RTV Silcone Sealant and he responded that they did not. But, the clerk suggested Home Depot which is where I will try next. The procedure that you provided was detailed which I appreciate. Assuming I can find the sealant I will give it a whirl starting with one of the small pieces of missing trim. Again, thanks for your reply.

Doug

[alang]

You can find the RTV Silicone at automotive stores like Auto Zone, Pep Boys, etc. I've also seen it in the automotive section at Walmart.

Andreas

[Phonofreak]

You beat me to the punch. I forgot to mention that in my last post. Thanks!!
Harvey Kravitz

You can find the RTV Silicone at automotive stores like Auto Zone, Pep Boys, etc. I've also seen it in the automotive section at Walmart.

Andreas

[Cody K]

Doug, I haven't worked with it, but I wonder if the silicone might be too flexible, depending on your machine's curves. (What kind of a machine is it?)

I like to use modelling clay because if it's thick enough, it won't flex at all. I don't know if you've seen this, but maybe it will help in some small way:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =7&t=16244

Best Regards --
Cody

[FellowCollector]

Doug, I haven't worked with it, but I wonder if the silicone might be too flexible, depending on your machine's curves. (What kind of a machine is it?)

I like to use modelling clay because if it's thick enough, it won't flex at all. I don't know if you've seen this, but maybe it will help in some small way:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16244

Best Regards --
Cody

Thanks Cody! I had completely forgotten about that thread and am pleased that you resurrected it here. The phonograph I recently purchased and am trying to bring back to its former glory is a Brunswick style 135. In addition to its attractive bowed sides (like the much more commonly found VV-125, VV-130, VV-XVII and VV-XVIII Victrolas) this particular Brunswick 135 has a couple of very unusual adornments that are not found on any other Brunswick style 135 (or its earlier version, the style 35) that I've ever seen. This one has dual gold plated lid supports (as opposed to just one) that gently lower and raise the lid with an ever so gentle touch. And it has horizontal record drawers lettered A to E and a unique bottom drawer with recessed button pulls. All other Brunswick style 35 / style 135 models I've seen (in pictures) have the vertical record storage drawers lettered A to E behind the twin lower cabinet doors. Anyway, mine has a missing piece of decorative trim on one record storage cabinet door and one trim piece missing on the side of the cabinet. I also need to replicate the grille fretwork as it was damaged long ago. I contacted Jan (Phonogal) who has two style 35 Brunswick phonographs and she has been great in offering some insight as well as graciously offering to send me a template of the grille fretwork that she used to repair her mahogany style 35 using her complete and intact original walnut style 35 grille so that I may use it to make one for my style 135. Mine has most (if not all) of the damaged fretwork but I want this to be one solid piece as it was originally. It's just shameful when beautiful, high end phonographs like this are damaged over the years by careless handling, horseplay or whatever! But I'm very pleased to have had the opportunity to purchase this rarely found machine at a recent large (with lots of early stuff!) estate sale.

I will try all of the suggestions offered here on some test pieces I have first. Again, thanks for all of your suggestions and help.

Doug

[Cody K]

Wow, Doug! The Brunswick 35/135 is a spectacular phonograph, and well worth some ardor to put it right. Here's a link to Jan's thread about hers, for those who aren't familiar with it (I wasn't): http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=2&t=8571

Any chance you can post pictures of the parts that need repair on your machine? That might bring out some helpful suggestions.

I can't argue with the method that Harvey posted at all. As I said, I haven't used the silicone, and more than that, Harvey knows his stuff. But, not having seen the damaged areas you need to fix, I'd still be inclined to lobby for using modelling clay because of the curves that are pretty much everywhere on the machine. Intuitively, it seems to me that unless put on very thick, the silicone might be a bit too flexible in areas where you might need rigidity.

When working on curves such as your 135 has, you may want to resort to sandwiching and clamping a very dense piece of foam rubber between the cabinet and a piece of sturdy wood, in some situations. The foam will conform to the cabinet's curves, while still applying enough pressure to keep a mould firmly in place. In the case of something like the grille, you may need to counter that pressure with another piece of foam on the in-side of the grille, lined with something like waxed paper to prevent stray epoxy (or whatever compound you're using) adhering to it. I take it the grille lifts out in some ordinary way?

Anyway -- you've got a beautiful machine and some interesting challenges to work with. It'll be a real prize once you're done with it, especially since yours has features not normally seen on the model.

[Phonofreak]

After reading the other posts, I've been pondering about the curved application. The reason I use silicone is because the part can be removed, and the mold can be used over again. I did notice that when the epoxy casting is removed from the mold, it is still quite flexible and can manipulated to fit the curve. This is before the part has cured completely. Most of my castings are for straight pieces. But with these Bombe style curves, I think there might be enough flexibility in the newly hardened part. It's worth a try. Keep us posted on your progress.
Harvey Kravitz

[FellowCollector]

Any chance you can post pictures of the parts that need repair on your machine? That might bring out some helpful suggestions.

Thanks for the kind comments. I've attached a picture of the one side of the cabinet that is missing a small section of decorative trim. As you can see I have cleaned absolutely nothing on the cabinet as yet. Haven't had time so right now it sits patiently waiting in the garage. It still has cobwebs, dust, etc. on it from being untouched for many years. I bought some modeling clay that hardens on its own (no baking required) and also a couple of other items that might possibly be used to recreate the trim pieces including Harvey's suggestion with using the sealant.

I do have a humorous story to share about this phonograph... On Monday (Memorial Day) it was really warm here (perhaps 85) and we had just moved the Brunswick 135 into the garage. One of the record storage cabinet doors was sticking and so I decided to remove both of them. I removed the 8 screws holding the decorative Bombe doors in place and carefully removed the doors from their beautifully designed hinge assemblies. I was wearing a short sleeve shirt at the time and so I decided to put all 8 door screws into the chest pocket of my shirt. Shortly thereafter my wife asked if I would fix one of the large summer umbrellas that we use under tables in our back yard this time of year. So, there I was sitting in a lawn chair under the shade of another umbrella looking at this umbrella that was not working right when all at once I thought I felt something crawling on the back of my neck and down the back of my shirt. I jumped up so fast you wouldn't believe it and removed my shirt and shook it off. Then....OHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOO.....there went all but 2(!!) of my Brunswick 135 door screws!! Ohhhhhhh boy...and they're pretty small and we have lots of nice healthy grass to hide them. I was so angry with myself for not putting the screws in a baggy as I always did in the past. So if anyone might have some door screws for a higher end Brunswick please let me know.

Doug