Stump Oak Jacobean Finish repairs.

[alang]

Looks pretty good already. Should the sides also have the shaded finish with darker outside and lighter in the middle? If yes, maybe you could get that look with darker wax?
Thanks for sharing, a very attarctive machine.
Andreas

[larryh]

Andreas,

I did shade the sides to a degree but they don't show much in the photos. Actually the side that was the least disturbed is the one that seems the least shaded. Of course it could have worn off by some degree as well. I wonder too if the finish methods could have varied a bit over time? The one in the photo posted seems to have a more smooth effect, which may be exactly right. The one I have seems to have been a more antiqued effect with more pronounced grooves to the finish..
Also I notice that the one other machine seems to have had an original gold toned material, mine has a very tattered green toned cloth behind the grill. I know edison used different cloths for the same machines and that may have been a personal choice of the customer or maybe one has been changed? Mine is so thread bear that it has quite a bit of long tears in it from aging. Still it could have been changed at some point. In reality I think I would like the lighter material as it lets the grill show better.

Larry

[larryh]

I looked at the farther photos of the D-25 shown and I don't think there is any way that it was exactly the same finish.. It has less pronounced shading than the Frow book shows for both the D-25 and J-19. Another puzzle is that if you look the D version in these photos has the hinge on the other side from where the book shows either machine. That might have been a mistake in photo copying? Still there is no way the very obvious shading and somewhat crude Jacobean sort of open grain is evident in the D-25 either?

I normally would have attempted to restored the machine totally if it were in the shape this one was when I got it. However since the front section of it was still in reasonably good shape I decided to leave it as much original as possible. Another thought on it was that since I picked it up rather cheaply that it would suffice to give me the larger sound I wanted replacing the S-19 that was in its place. If at some point I were to find a chippendale in oak or other lighter cabinet it might easily give the new machine the space. It didn't seem like a total redo other than to make it presentable was worth the effort for a rather strange and somewhat ugly duckling.

Larry

[Brad]

Larry,

Looking at the pictures, and from what I remember when investigating my D25 (which had the original finished removed), I don't believe you have the original finish, however, what you have is really quite attractive for that style of cabinet. I would be quite pleased. Too bad the cabinet department at the EPW hadn't thought of it.

My understanding is that not many D25's survive. Thanks for sharing.

[larryh]

Brad.
I didn't notice at first but there is another discrepancy in the photo posted of the D-25. It shows a center drop handle and not the side handle as mine has as well as both cabinets in the Frow Book. So evidently there was some noticeable changes in the cabinet over time. The frow book shows the very obvious contrast of the finsh where as the machine shown above mine has a very subtle variation.. There is one machine owned by Victrola Man on You Tube which has the original interior lid and motor board which are the nearly black looking finish that mine has, someone has stripped to outside to a light oak finish.

I know mine is not precisely what it had when new but I still don't think it ever had that sort of Edison Brown effect that the machine shown has.

Larry

[larryh]

I think I am ready to reconsider the finish it may have had.. When I look at it closely the brown interior (which goes to near black on some edges), does have a deep exposed grain but is coated with a semi gloss finish. Expect where I think the storage conditions caused it to fall off. It may be the more exaggerated shading of the front especially on mine might be how they had to do the stain in order for the following finish which was probably a lacquer containing a brown stain also to end up with the finish as shown on the sample shown. I can't be sure of that though. Either way I most likely am going to leave it the way it turned out. Like some others said, I think the variation and somewhat rugged effect in some way accents the rather blah style if has.

Larry

[Brad]

Larry, I went and looked at my D25 and mine has a drawer with a classic Edison knob in the center. Looking at Frow's book, it is difficult to tell the shading from the picture. I interpreted the lighter areas as reflection of light.

Frow said that there were not many D25's produced and the drawer gave way to a door. What is the Serial # of your machine? Mine is #649.

I then remembered that board member Covah had found one with original finish in tough shape and had restored it. I couldn't find that thread, it was probably on the board that imploded, but I found a few of interesting things:

1 - In early thread in this board I discuss my D25 and reference an article about this machine in In The Groove from April or October 2006. I don't recall where I got that from and I don't have my back copies handy. Perhaps some one reading this has their copies handy and find the article and post it here.

2 - Matt Brown found and restored a J-19 version and shared it in another board here http://edisonphonos.proboards.com/index ... thread=745 Reading through the thread, looks like both YOU and I participated in that discussion You must have been laying groundwork for this discussion.

3 - Later Matt offered it for sale on this board with lots of pictures here http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... t=jacobean (I didn't compare photos to see if they were just repeats or some new ones.)

Again, I think that whatever finish you have looks good. My machine had been stripped as others have reported and I like the look of the stripped version as well (picture below). The Jacobean might just be the one machine that enjoys a better life having been modified from its factory original smock.

[larryh]

Brad,

Thanks for the photos. I suppose then that the machine I got was simply exposed to too much moisture or something that caused much of the finish to disappear. I agree that many of the refinished ones, especially like yours have it over the original design which was rather dark an somewhat boring. In a way the result I got to me seems better than the original as well but I do like to try to maintain the original looks when possible. But short of redoing this one I have completely there wasn't much else I could do. I would have to think a while as to wether I would want to attempt to return it to the original finish? I just am not sure its worth it.. If Matt sold his which it says he did for 700 then I suppose my purchase for about 600.00 less was worth it.. The best thing on mine was the discovery that the reproducer still plays very well and seems to have a good diamond, something I don't run into often so the reproducer alone is worth it to me.

As a side note I found that it validated my True Tone diaphragm as when I check a record using the original Edison diaphragm against mine I find that mine has a slightly wider tone and is about dead on in the type of sound produced. Due to the age of the original it may be suffering a bit from age, but it does the best job of an original I have heard. I am pretty confident then on the sound of mine.. In fact I played a record for a friend a couple days ago and was questioning if the True Tone was playing it correctly. I put in the original Diaphragm reproducer and got the very same results so I knew the sound was what the record had to offer.

Larry

[larryh]

I forgot to ask, the machine came without the crank. I am having to use an S-19 crank which is short but works for now.. After the sale was over the auctioneer realized he had the crank and a collector who was at the sale as well told him to contact me.. He agreed to send it which was great until all I received was an empty light weight padded envelope with a hole in the end where the crank had fell out.. If anyone has a spare 250 type crank in the gunmetal finish reasonable I would be interested if you will PM me.

Larry

[Lucius1958]

Brad.
I didn't notice at first but there is another discrepancy in the photo posted of the D-25. It shows a center drop handle and not the side handle as mine has as well as both cabinets in the Frow Book. So evidently there was some noticeable changes in the cabinet over time.

Larry

According to Frow, the earliest versions had a drawer (hence the center pull). Sometime after December 1918, this was changed to a cupboard (side knob)...

Bill