Stump Oak Jacobean Finish repairs.

[larryh]

Hello All

I found a Jacobean Edison Disc machine yesterday. Its solid as far as the cabinet goes. however what ever the dark finish was that is over the oak wood has seemed to have lost its darken finish in places. One side of the lid looks like a box or album might have been on it keeping it pretty dark, but the strip of lighter wood along one side needs to be touched up. I haven't yet determined if the finish is shellac or lacquer, I sort of think the latter. My guess is the original was sort of a take off on a waxed finish? I know from other repairs that often trying to go over parts of existing finish usually results in a blotched finish that looks like exactly what you did, go over it.. Still if I could I would like to save the finish which is the worst on one side that evidently was in the light alot and the top which has quite a few places where the finish for one reason or the other has come off somewhat in line with the wide oak grain so that you have a light patch an then the darker finish is still in place. I have considered trying to come as close as I can to that dark stain an apply it so that its in the light places and then apply wax over it to give it a low luster finish.

Anyone had any experience with trying restore this machine? Its the Edison J-19.

Its not a finish question but I also have what is like a runaway governor. I have not run into this. With the speed control turned all the way off, the slightest movement of the knob from total stop ends up with a turntable going extremely fast and of course the governor is also making a lot of noise. Any idea what that might be about. I have not yet taken the motor out of the machine, the weather is rather lousy for work in the garage at the moment, but I may pull it and bring it in to see what gives.

Larry

[rizbone]

If the friction plate of the governor won't slide on the shaft it won't function correctly and will spin at the maximum speed. Either it's very dirty, or someone replaced one of the screws holding down the end of the governor spring with one that is too long and it is hitting the shaft. I also had one machine that someone replaced the governor springs with cut out pieces of tin can that acted somewhat like you describe.

I have never been lucky with finishes.

[larryh]

I wondered about that governor shaft as well and from what I could accomplish with the motor in place I did try to apply some oil to it, but the reproducer and the turntable were both stuck on the machine due to a build up of corrosion so I wouldn't be surprised that the shaft to it is also stuck. In fact I tired to watch an the wheel the pads turn against basically stayed in one place and you couldn't seem to move the part. The felt pads also are inflexible, not sure if they are supposed to move a bit as well.

Larry

[JohnM]

You might try black/brown paste shoe polish. Easily removeable if you don't like the result. Finish with an abrasive pad or buff to a gloss to match.

[larryh]

John that thought crossed my mind but I had tried to get some of my oak flooring to darken up where some water had made it lightened and I had no luck getting the shoe polish to "take" to the wood and darken it, but I may try some on a out of the way spot to see what the results might be. I am still uncertain about how to proceed since some much of the original finish is present and others places its missing.. My usual experience is that when one leaves an of a original finish and tries to go over it you end up wishing you had removed it. However I like many try to save the original as much as possible. I sort of think if I could get the lighter places where the black/brown finish is poor that I might be able to over coat it with a semi gloss coat and then either rub it or simply wax it to give it a slight body to the finish. Still pondering this..

Larry

[Brian]

Hello Larry,

I own a professional refinishing and restoration business. Here is what I would do were it in my shop.
First, it's helpful to understand what was done when it was first finished.

1) the raw white oak was grain filled with a colored grain filler paste. I would guess that the main ingredient was VanDyke Brown.
2)Stain with VanDyke brown/Asphaltum mix stain.
3) a top coat was applied of gloss Lacquer or Shelac But most likley Lacquer.
4) the coats were applied with a spray gun not by brush I would guess.
5) it was sanded between coats probly with 200- 300 grit, then finish sanded at final coat with 600 before the last spay coat. Last top coat has to be gloss.
6) wait a week then polish out.
So to repair a damaged finish or to get the same original look all you need to do is recreate what was done.

Stay away from shoe polish (good for leather scratches though), use colored past wax if you want to wax it.Antique Wax, Black Bison, etc. Not Brixwax ! Paste wax does have it's own problems though. No finish put on top will dry & if it ever gets wet or hot it will turn white.
Mohawk makes all the products you need, including toners to spray over the old finish and gently bring the color to where it matches other undamaged areas. They also make fill sticks of various hardness for filling holes etc. I think this should point you in the right direction.

Good Luck with your project,

Brian
A Masters Touch

[larryh]

Brian,

Thanks for your detailed description.. I unfortunately have no way to produce a sprayed finish.. I have had some reasonable results using the brushing lacquer, something I was leery to try for years.. This finish is savable but needs a number of light places darkened. What I am concerned about is that if I try to just go over ti with some lacquer in place which much of it is, then the places where I need to touch up with a dark stain may just look splotchy. When ever I have attempted to leave some finish where some is already missing it seems the finish just looks like that is what you did. However this machine appears to have had a dull sort of faked waxed or rubbed finish to start. Its probably was never very shiny, a semi gloss at the most. Maybe I can recreate that without removing the finish but not sure.. I wish the weather were warm so I could actually do some finishing but its too cold for a while. I may try to fill some of the light places where the finish is missing with the ebony stain. I am pretty sure the ebony now on it was a part of the lacquer finish and sprayed on to shade it, mostly dark. That might pose an issue as well if I put the satin on parts where its missing the then have to go back an try to fix it later if it looks poorly..

Larry

[larryh]

I have been searching the web for photos of the original Jacobean Edison Uprights. So far everyone I see is a lighter oak which someone called English. The Frow book states they only came in the Dark Oak finish.. Evidently either the finishes were problematic like mine or people hated the dark cabinet and redid it in a light oak.. I can see remaining dark places along some of the panels which rather tells me they were redone by a latter owner. One in fact from a member here is still the almost black finish in side the lid and motor board and the outside is a medium orangish oak so that tells me that its not the right exterior finish.. These things must be rather scarce perhaps?

I have done my best to save the original finish. Granted the things are so dark you can barely make out the detail and they take some getting used to. Especially if they are replacing a light oak machine in the same location.. Fortunately I had a picture with almost the same dark brown frame and its of a somewhat european setting back in the turn of the century. The look of the rather german people and an old fashioned rock wall and strolling path with a large very dark tree really act to blend the machine into the corner its occupying. Once I get it totally finished I will post a photo..

The Motor was totally glued together with oily films that had dried and made the speed control totally unable to work. I got it freed up but managed to break one of tbe weights where it attached to the flywheel.. Mainly because the sleeve was so stuck I had to put some real pressure on it to get it freed up. Lucky I had an somewhat crummy looking governor on a part I purchased to get another piece some time ago. So I do have it running now without going full speed. A little noisy but am going to attempt to adjust the governor and gears to quiet it down.

Larry

[wjw]

D25Jacobean1.jpg (99.48 KiB) Viewed 1116 times

Larry, there are several shots of one here: http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... n+jacobean This one, given the ratty grille cloth, might be untouched. It has the "toned" look of late 20's lacquer finishes. Frow dates these to 1918-19 so I doubt the use of lacquer. Looks like it was "antiqued" by another method. If the finish doesn't show any cracks or "alligatoring" they may have not even used shellac. Maybe a waxed finish?
If mineral spirits wipes the color away- it was waxed. I melt black crayons in Johnson's paste wax. I've never tried to "tone" a panel of oak with dark wax, but maybe you could try it.

[larryh]

Thanks for the photo of the original machine. Obviously it was kept much better than mine which had much of the original finish flaked off. I wanted to still retain as much of the cabinet as I could so I ended up with a dark walnut mixed in places with a bit of ebony stain.. The more difficult to cover parts I used a minwax touch up of dark walnut in the felt tip type dispensers. That seemed to cover where other things wouldn't. Its not perfect but and it is very dark, the original interior is every bit as dark as the exterior so I feel it can't be far off. The front of the machine was mostly in fair shape for some reason with the lid being the most noticeable and the left side was also faded a great deal.

The photos for the most part due to the flash appear lighter than the cabinet does in the room. The photo with the lid open is more the effect it gives.

Larry