Record wear. A question for the experienced.

[Couch Potato]

Always a fun topic. When you look at audio file forums they are usually freaking out when the modern turntable tracking force is more then about 1.5 grams. Wonder how they would feel if you told them the tracking force on a Victrola is upwards of 5 ounces! Seriously the 78's were meant to be played and enjoyed. I too change the needles almost every other if not every play. I have hundreds of 78's so any individual one usually does get played all that often. Unless it is some ultra rare record I would get to tie-up about it. I am more worried about what will happen when I am gone as my son last time I asked for help in moving a machine said I can help you move it to the curb (i.e. for trash collection). Hopefully he was joking. It's worth playing 78's on a real wind up machine as they sound exactly as they did back in the day. Not something when we transfer them to digital or play them on modern equipment can even begin to reproduce.

[larryh]

I purchased a set of classical red seals, mostly single sided still packed in the carton to a local major department store chain. Never been out of the box. I have played those since the mid 50s and used only steel needles on them, changing the needle regularly, I can not tell today that they aren't just being played for the first time.

The opposite extreme I recall well was a fellow I met who worked for the local library in the music room. We got to talking about old phonographs and he told me he had one but it sounded very bad. I offered to take a look at it and brought along a pack of needles. When I got there he played a bit of a piece and said, "see what it sounds like, you can't make out the music". I ask him how often he changed the needle an he said he didn't know he had to change the needle.. I put in a new one and we were both amazed at how much better it then sounded.

The one machine that has damaged a lot of records is the Edison. I keep getting faulty stylus for my testing that runs for short while without leaving lines and then begins to show wear to the record. Often I am so busy testing that I don't realize what is going on till I put a record to the bright light and give it a good looking over. If its leaving an obvious scratch in the run off then of course I see that. Hopefully that will end soon if a new source comes along.

On the materials added to records, I have had only passing experiences with them. In getting some records from a friend I ran across a set that had a very smeary film all over it that was very difficult to remove. I am sure its some substance someone sold to make them run smoother. A friend swears by Pledge and uses it on his fine collection of vocal acoustics. I haven't actually seen him do it since we no longer or anywhere near the same locations, I only know he claims it makes them play quieter.. I personally wouldn't do it for the reasons given above of the dirt collecting in the substance. When I tired to play the one with the obvious greasy looking surface the stylus got gummed up in no time on an electric playback and would garble the sound.

Larry

[Orchorsol]

On the materials added to records, I have had only passing experiences with them. In getting some records from a friend I ran across a set that had a very smeary film all over it that was very difficult to remove. I am sure its some substance someone sold to make them run smoother. A friend swears by Pledge and uses it on his fine collection of vocal acoustics. I haven't actually seen him do it since we no longer or anywhere near the same locations, I only know he claims it makes them play quieter.. I personally wouldn't do it for the reasons given above of the dirt collecting in the substance. When I tired to play the one with the obvious greasy looking surface the stylus got gummed up in no time on an electric playback and would garble the sound.

That's a good point, once you have applied any of those lubricants it's likely the record can never be played on modern hi-fi equipment again, i.e. it's pretty much consigned to steel/fibre/thorn needles only, unless the material can be totally removed somehow (very difficult).

With materials like furniture polish sprays, I'd be concerned that they contain solvent components (whether alcohol, oily, or other) which may swell, soften or partially dissolve the shellac base or other ingredients of the shellac compound over time. I'm probably being over-cautious though! All the same, I have tried it on a few semi-expendable records and found it didn't make much improvement - wax and graphite were far more effective.

[WDC]

The argument, that these records were meant to be played with steel needle and heavy weight reproducer is something I commonly hear from many collectors.
But I am convinced that this coin does have a flipside. When the pre-1930s records are regularly played with steel needles (always changed) I also doubt that they will develop a much audible degration over time, depending on that they are only played on the period equipment such as an acoustic reproducer or early electric pickup.
These reproduction methods are quite generous, even to medium imperfections of the played material. So, any degration within that range will likely remain inaudible on these machines.
For playback on a modern turntable with a modern cartridge, these rules do not count. These pickups of our days are not so forgiving and I am absolutely sure, that one will hear a very noticeable difference to an almost untouched record.
I do enjoy many of my disc records with steel needles and like their overall appearance. But I usually will not let a steel needle touch one of my rarer and more valueable records, these are not to played that way but deserve a more proper preservation, also for future generation collectors after me.
But... , what about the idea that they were all meant to played with steel needles? Yes, they were - and they were also meant to wear out so that poeple would return to the stores and buy more records.
And even those horrible long playing needles were also meant to be used - because the manufacturers did not care if a record would wear out faster than necessary.
One should also keep in mind, that planned obsolescence is an invention of the early industrial age. A good example is the moebus syndicate of the 1920s to reduce the lifespan of light bulbs from 4,000 to 1,000 hours, something we still see nowadays 90 years afterwards.

[gregbogantz]

I agree with you Norman. Any record played with a steel needle in a "proper" manner will show signes of wear, just as you say. Not so noticeable when played on an acoustic machine, but distinctly noisier and more distorted when played on a modern system. Just as you mention, I keep two sets of records: One set that are mostly V+ and worse grade to be played on acoustic players and early electric types, and the second set that are E- or better grade to be played on modern players with light tracking force. I did a LOT of vinyl compound wear testing when I was at RCA Records and followed up those tests with listening tests and microscopic inspection, and it became very clear that records wear with very little provocation. As you say, records were considered expendable back in the day, and people were expected to replace their favorites as they wore out and became unlistenable. We don't have that luxury today.

[Wolfe]

Play them in stereo on a modern electric player and hear how often one side of the groove wall will be more (sometimes much more) worn than the other. Perhaps due to needles...tonearm tracking error...an improperly mounted soundbox. But it's so very common with records that aren't mint / NOS.

[Edisone]

When it comes to to some of the Pathé vertical-cut records with their shallow grooves, however--and especially when played on an Actuelle paper cone machine--I am convinced that record wear occurs pretty quickly as I have one of those set-ups. I've ceased playing my Pathé verticals on my Actuelle because of it--and perhaps there is some sort of repair required--though I'm inclined to believe it's a congenital problem.

Ralph

Do you have the cone-only type, or the Actuelle with the "tone arm"? Mine, with the tone arm, always seemed pretty easy on Pathé records; I stopped using it only because a spring broke. Maybe yours does need adjusting.

I also have a cone-only type, but someone replaced the cone with THICK, stiff paperboard that doesn't have the proper shape near the clamping ring - the thing produces almost no sound at all!

[old country chemist]

Record wear!! I have used PTFE powder in the past, It is supposed to have the lowest coefficient of friction known to man-well it did when I used it. I obtained mine from the laboratory of a local oil works and manufactory. I have none now. It has to be treated with care. Graphite powder I still use occasionally, and it works, but messy, as a previous correspondant has noted. Candle wax is indeed useful, but you have warm the record usually for the wax to soften enough to work it into the grooves. The Davey Record Stick, produced after the last war was idea, small enough to handle and it worked. I think it was beeswax, with some softeners added. It came in a little tube a bit like a lipstick container, and was 2 shillings, I think at the time. A rare item to find now.

[barnettrp21122]

Record wear!! I have used PTFE powder in the past, It is supposed to have the lowest coefficient of friction known to man-well it did when I used it. I obtained mine from the laboratory of a local oil works and manufactory. I have none now. It has to be treated with care. Graphite powder I still use occasionally, and it works, but messy, as a previous correspondant has noted. Candle wax is indeed useful, but you have warm the record usually for the wax to soften enough to work it into the grooves. The Davey Record Stick, produced after the last war was idea, small enough to handle and it worked. I think it was beeswax, with some softeners added. It came in a little tube a bit like a lipstick container, and was 2 shillings, I think at the time. A rare item to find now.

Hmm..after checking out its ingredients I wonder how original Chapstick would work.

It has beeswax, paraffin and carnuba wax, and is soft enough, in a handy applicator.
I might give it a try sometime, though with the camphor your discs might start smelling like Vicks Vapo-Rub!
Bob