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Re: What should ‘normal’ record wear look like w/ steel need
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:55 pm
by NEFaurora
That's why I collect Edisons!
HA HA HA HA HA!
Tony K.
Edison Collector/Restorer
Re: What should ‘normal’ record wear look like w/ steel need
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:21 pm
by Uncle Vanya
Player-Tone wrote:I was wondering what record wear ‘should’ look like when using steel needles. Since record wear can be impacted by an improperly working reproducer or poor needle I want to know if everything on my phonograph is working to the best of its ability.
-I am aware of fiber and wood needles, but I want to focus on reducing wear when using steel needles. I know record wear is inevitable, I just don’t want it to happen any faster than it needs to.
-Below are pictures of my needles after playing two different records. One record was mint; the other already had some minor wear but no grey spots. Both were acoustic Victor batwing records played with a Victrola No.2 reproducer-which had been rebuilt with new gaskets. I would like the opinions of other collectors; is this how your needles look after playing a record?
Read picture description for additional info:
-Thanks!
I suspect that the rubber isolator between your reproducer and the tone arm is insufficiently compliant. Old units have perished to a stony hardness and the new units offered by the various phonograph parts suppliers are far too hard. you want a busing with a Durometer Hardness of around 35. the commonly available units are closer to 60, and not only promote record wear, but negatively affect the machine's reproduction.
Re: What should ‘normal’ record wear look like w/ steel need
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:49 pm
by Player-Tone
Thanks for all the replies everyone!
So my next question would be- how often do you wash your records after the initial cleaning, and do you brush them after each play with a record brush?
Some of my records I had cleaned years ago, but they have received nothing more than a dry velvet brush since then despite being played quiet often. If I really scrub down a record with soap and water before testing it I receive hardly any record dust at all on the first play, however the amount slowly increases the more I play it despite using a record brush after each use. Surely I don't have to wash the record after each use... right??
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larryh wrote:I forgot to praise your photos, they are of extreme quality. I wish I had a camera that would produce such fine detain.. The one I have might perhaps if I could only figure out how to navigate though endless screens. Yours are a job well done.
Larry
Thank you! I just used my cell phone's camera, nothing fancy. I managed to get these micro shots by placing a 10x jewelers loupe in front of the lens.
Re: What should ‘normal’ record wear look like w/ steel need
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:19 am
by 52089
I seem to recall someone on Youtube doing testing of a near-mint 78 and recording it every 100 plays or so to study record wear. Does anyone have a link to these videos?
Re: What should ‘normal’ record wear look like w/ steel need
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:30 am
by Player-Tone
52089 wrote:I seem to recall someone on Youtube doing testing of a near-mint 78 and recording it every 100 plays or so to study record wear. Does anyone have a link to these videos?
Here it is:
Play #1
[youtubehd]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pITAgJf6WRg[/youtubehd]
Play #100
[youtubehd]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8zm64GGizY[/youtubehd]
Here are all his videos, the record was recorded after every 10 plays:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... LV8_ZXPbMM
Re: What should ‘normal’ record wear look like w/ steel need
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:58 am
by NEFaurora
This is a great thread. It is a very interesting subject. I have always wondered about the wear on needle machines.
)
Tony K.
Edison Collector/Restorer
Re: What should ‘normal’ record wear look like w/ steel need
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:17 am
by RAK402
I have enjoyed reading the above discussion-very even handed with great information from a variety of people!
"I've been using needles from Walt Sommers almost exclusively"
Same here.
Very good needles, very little, if any, black dust, and quick and excellent service from Mr. Sommers.
The record wear test videos are very interesting. I can hear no difference from play #1 to play #100.
I play my 78's mostly on Brunswick Panatropes (portables, a Seville, and a Cortez). I don't really care if the records are valuable or not (I doubt any of mine are very valuable) as I bought them to hear them on acoustic machines. I probably go through 100 needles every month or so (I don't know if this is a lot of use or not compared to most of you).
Re: What should ‘normal’ record wear look like w/ steel need
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:55 am
by chunnybh
Uncle Vanya has nailed it. Record wear and quality of reproduction is largely determined by the rubber buffer between the reproducer and the tonearm. Ofcourse there are several factors involved but replacing a perished or hard rubber buffer will reduce record wear and significantly improve reproduction, especially the bass frequencies.
I've used everything from bicycle inner tubing to having had replacements made. Even home made buffers are better than hard ones.
Re: What should ‘normal’ record wear look like w/ steel need
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:19 am
by Edisone
I think the Victrola #2 is particularly brutal on records, especially when in less than perfect, original operating condition. Mating it to the very badly misaligned Victrola tone-arms makes it worse.
The gunk shown in the microscopic pics would make me stop playing any records until the problem was cured - which might entail using different machines.
Re: What should ‘normal’ record wear look like w/ steel need
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:18 am
by Player-Tone
The advice on those hard flange gaskets makes sense, some of those new replacements are just as hard as the originals I am trying to replace!
I have considered making ones out of Alumilite Flex #30 or #40 casting rubber.
This stuff: (
http://www.alumilite.com/store/p/945-Flex-40.aspx)
You could pour it around the brass ring in a mold and get some really nice soft gaskets, then keep the mold incase you need to make more in the future.
-Just curious though, how many don't notice record dust but are using those hard gasket replacements?