The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

epigramophone wrote: I agree that eBay seems to have forgotten that it is the SELLER who pays their fees. As well as siding with the buyer right or wrong, they now charge fees on the seller's postage costs as well as the final value of the item. Sellers now have to choose whether to inflate the cost of postage by 10% or take a hit.

PeterF wrote:I don't sell on eBay too frequently, but know my way around pretty well. However a recent transaction taught me a few things in somewhat uncomfortable fashion, and I aim to save some of you fellow phonoists similar trouble by sharing a few tips gleaned from the experience. Here we go:

1. If you list something as "as-is, no returns" - which is especially important to the seller financially on stuff that is expensive to ship - eBay can still require you to accept it back if the buyer files what eBay considers to be a valid complaint about it. So you need to set about preventing the sort of complaints that will run against you in ebay's superficial eyes.

2. In my example, I sold a portable phono that was worn but usable. I'd made sure it ran perfectly when it left here, and described and showed it accurately, and listed it as "as-is, no returns." It sold for only a little more than the reproducer was worth, and shipped for about half the auction price, but whatever, I had cleared it out of here. But: I did not shoot video of it running.

3. The buyer was not a phono collector, nor was she mechanically inclined. Upon arrival she claimed it didn't work, and I went to great pains to help her get it working, through detailed instructions and questions. Long story short, there was nothing wrong with it and she simply had buyer's remorse and wanted to back out, on my nickel. She filed a claim with eBay, saying it didn't work. She also said it was well packed and undamaged...so an insurance claim could not be filed either. And eBay rubber stamped the claim as valid and required me to pay to ship it back, and removed her purchase and shipping payment from my paypal account. As-is, no returns held no weight whatsoever - eBay can unilaterally remove that element from your auctions, for no cause.

4. I knew that if she shipped it back I would likely get a box of firewood and scrap metal, and be out the additional shipping money to boot, so I declined the return. She keeps the machine, for free. And although I got eBay to request photographic proof of damage and/or non-function, she did not provide it and still "won" the claim. (After the resolution, I messaged her to give the thing to some local kid to tinker with, in case the kid could have fun trying to fix it. No response. Hope she's enjoying her free phono.)

So how do we prevent this sort of thing? Here is what I would suggest:

- If the item is sold as functional, shoot video of it on your phone, playing or otherwise working. You can retain that for possible use, or even better, just throw it up on YouTube and include that URL in the listing as an extra sales helper. This will remove the "he said it works, but it doesn't" claim.

- Develop some boilerplate wording for your listings that informs novice buyers that the thing is 100 years old (or whatever) and so not to expect modern day performance or cosmetics (unless condition is a selling point), in a friendly way. This removes the claim of "not working right" by people who are disappointed it doesn't sound as good as their Bluetooth iPhone speaker.

- Shoot pictures of the packing process, and of the final package, and hang onto them til the thing arrives safely and is accepted. This removes the potential claim that you packed it wrong and it broke in transit, and bolsters any potential insurance claim.

- Insure everything, and require buyers to pay for it, and clearly include that fact in your listing. If things go south, it's a fallback for you - admittedly iffy at times, but better than nothing.

- For mechanical items that might get out of alignment or otherwise mildly less-than-optimal, include an offer of post sale phone support. This can prevent issues from people who can't figure out how to place a turntable on a spindle, or thread a crank onto a shaft through a cabinet escutcheon or tighten a needle chuck or put a reproducer on a tone arm. There are way more people like that than we probably want to acknowledge, and a little patient guidance can save much acrimony later.

- This last one might be too much, but I will throw it in anyway. It struck me during the debugging attempt that the buyer might have been trying to play late vinyl 78s, or even vinyl LPs, on the thing. These would obviously not play on a 20's phono, dragging under the heavy tracking force, and in the case of the LPs, also never being able to be near the correct speed, and kicking out vinyl shavings, etc. My buyer reacted with anger at my asking this, because she knew all about such things - by virtue of her grandfather having once owned a victrola. (Such hereditary expertise transfer requires more extensive research, involving genomic blood testing and brain cat-scans of the offspring of Messrs. Paul and Rondeau, with my own kids as the control group.)

All right, I hope this helps at least some of us. Sadly, the eBay monopoly makes it hard to just walk away from the process, so these tips may help keep things easier if you want to sell. I do think I'm going to stop selling anything larger or more complex than an Edison Standard, because the risk and cost increases quite a bit after that.

Good luck.

epigramophone wrote:Some people will try anything to get something for nothing, but fortunately most people are honest, otherwise no-one could buy or sell with confidence. Ebay has it's problems, but it has enabled many of us to vary and enhance our collections by judicious buying and selling.