Cautionary Ebay selling tips, learned the hard way

[PeterF]

I don't sell on eBay too frequently, but know my way around pretty well. However a recent transaction taught me a few things in somewhat uncomfortable fashion, and I aim to save some of you fellow phonoists similar trouble by sharing a few tips gleaned from the experience. Here we go:

1. If you list something as "as-is, no returns" - which is especially important to the seller financially on stuff that is expensive to ship - eBay can still require you to accept it back if the buyer files what eBay considers to be a valid complaint about it. So you need to set about preventing the sort of complaints that will run against you in ebay's superficial eyes.

2. In my example, I sold a portable phono that was worn but usable. I'd made sure it ran perfectly when it left here, and described and showed it accurately, and listed it as "as-is, no returns." It sold for only a little more than the reproducer was worth, and shipped for about half the auction price, but whatever, I had cleared it out of here. But: I did not shoot video of it running.

3. The buyer was not a phono collector, nor was she mechanically inclined. Upon arrival she claimed it didn't work, and I went to great pains to help her get it working, through detailed instructions and questions. Long story short, there was nothing wrong with it and she simply had buyer's remorse and wanted to back out, on my nickel. She filed a claim with eBay, saying it didn't work. She also said it was well packed and undamaged...so an insurance claim could not be filed either. And eBay rubber stamped the claim as valid and required me to pay to ship it back, and removed her purchase and shipping payment from my paypal account. As-is, no returns held no weight whatsoever - eBay can unilaterally remove that element from your auctions, for no cause.

4. I knew that if she shipped it back I would likely get a box of firewood and scrap metal, and be out the additional shipping money to boot, so I declined the return. She keeps the machine, for free. And although I got eBay to request photographic proof of damage and/or non-function, she did not provide it and still "won" the claim. (After the resolution, I messaged her to give the thing to some local kid to tinker with, in case the kid could have fun trying to fix it. No response. Hope she's enjoying her free phono.)

So how do we prevent this sort of thing? Here is what I would suggest:

- If the item is sold as functional, shoot video of it on your phone, playing or otherwise working. You can retain that for possible use, or even better, just throw it up on YouTube and include that URL in the listing as an extra sales helper. This will remove the "he said it works, but it doesn't" claim.

- Develop some boilerplate wording for your listings that informs novice buyers that the thing is 100 years old (or whatever) and so not to expect modern day performance or cosmetics (unless condition is a selling point), in a friendly way. This removes the claim of "not working right" by people who are disappointed it doesn't sound as good as their Bluetooth iPhone speaker.

- Shoot pictures of the packing process, and of the final package, and hang onto them til the thing arrives safely and is accepted. This removes the potential claim that you packed it wrong and it broke in transit, and bolsters any potential insurance claim.

- Insure everything, and require buyers to pay for it, and clearly include that fact in your listing. If things go south, it's a fallback for you - admittedly iffy at times, but better than nothing.

- For mechanical items that might get out of alignment or otherwise mildly less-than-optimal, include an offer of post sale phone support. This can prevent issues from people who can't figure out how to place a turntable on a spindle, or thread a crank onto a shaft through a cabinet escutcheon or tighten a needle chuck or put a reproducer on a tone arm. There are way more people like that than we probably want to acknowledge, and a little patient guidance can save much acrimony later.

- This last one might be too much, but I will throw it in anyway. It struck me during the debugging attempt that the buyer might have been trying to play late vinyl 78s, or even vinyl LPs, on the thing. These would obviously not play on a 20's phono, dragging under the heavy tracking force, and in the case of the LPs, also never being able to be near the correct speed, and kicking out vinyl shavings, etc. My buyer reacted with anger at my asking this, because she knew all about such things - by virtue of her grandfather having once owned a victrola. (Such hereditary expertise transfer requires more extensive research, involving genomic blood testing and brain cat-scans of the offspring of Messrs. Paul and Rondeau, with my own kids as the control group.)

All right, I hope this helps at least some of us. Sadly, the eBay monopoly makes it hard to just walk away from the process, so these tips may help keep things easier if you want to sell. I do think I'm going to stop selling anything larger or more complex than an Edison Standard, because the risk and cost increases quite a bit after that.

Good luck.

[Dave Cawley]

Has happened to me too, last week, on a brand new item. You could list as spares or repair, but then you won't get sensible money.

I have about $180K on eBay right now, I really don't like them, but it pays my mortgage..............

Dave

[fmblizz]

bottom line is Ebay sucks for the seller "in general"...

the buyer has all the rights and Ebay will rarely back the seller on most issues..

They just don't have the manpower to do these follow ups.

In the beginning Ebay was much more dependable & fair but that was long before millions of transaction per day was the norm..

SELLER BEWARE

blizz

[ticticdok]

I sell on Ebay occasionally and know what you are talking about here. I might have some trouble with some buyers on my items, but that doesn't stop me from putting them on my block list. I always looked at it if there is trouble with them once, I don't need any more trouble with them on other items I have listed. I think if sellers would share their list of fraudulent buyers, it is one way we all could share less grief on eBay. Just a thought...

[PeterF]

That only works for focused buyers who seek stuff related to our hobby. The casual, uninformed, buyer such as the one in my example, isn't prevented by such measures.

My intent in the original posting was to share pre-emptive precautionary tips rather than a cure for the pitfalls of Ebay, which I see as unfortunately necessary evils.

[PHONOMAN]

I require pickup by the buyer or will drop of at a shipping center and buyer deals directly with the shipper. This is the only way EBAY will support the seller. Also, require if buyer uses PAYPAL that it be a transfer of funds.

[BwanaJoe]

That is interesting since I didn't think Ebay could just yank funds out of Paypal now that that they are two different entities again. I guess you need to drain Paypal of funds ASAP after a transaction then. And yes, Ebay sucks.

[PeterF]

No, that doesn't work either. If you take the money out, all they do is charge the credit card or bank account that supports the PayPal account. You really have no recourse.

We need to bring back Teddy Roosevelt and bust that trust!

[BwanaJoe]

Well time to take checks and wait for clearance then. Of course the other option is to use Ebay as free advertising and nothing else.

[epigramophone]

I have sold a few portables over the years on eBay, and with one exception the transactions were trouble free. The one exception was a buyer who was so pernickety that he could have found bones in a banana.

As he was not worth risking my 100% positive feedback record, I gave him a full refund and he returned the machine at his own expense. I then relisted it, when it re-sold for a higher price to a buyer who was delighted with it.

I agree that eBay seems to have forgotten that it is the SELLER who pays their fees. As well as siding with the buyer right or wrong, they now charge fees on the seller's postage costs as well as the final value of the item. Sellers now have to choose whether to inflate the cost of postage by 10% or take a hit.

To minimise the possibility of things going wrong I only post within the UK, always use a signed for postal service with proof of delivery, and always offer the option of collection if this is convenient for the buyer.