Good phonograph for newbies?

[phonophan79]

Welcome David. It sounds like you're set on the external horn and the appearance of the machine. Nothing wrong with that, these are beautiful machines to look at. "They don't make 'em like that anymore!"

The cheapest external horn phonograph you will find is the "Standard Model A" ... not to be confused with Edison's Standard Cylinder Phonograph... this is a disc phonograph. The only thing is, I'm sorry I don't know how often these appear in Europe, though.

My example...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oueyDn6p4a4

Here is one currently listed on eBay...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0423207835

I would guess this machine at $300-$400 low end and and $500-$600 high end.

Otherwise, you will most likely always have to pay at least $1000 for an external horn phonograph.

[m1tch]

Ah ok I've found a few HMV 102s on ebay over here going for about £175, so about $230ish, maybe less, I guess I am looking for something that is mechanical and connects the machine with the music, rather than having an electric turntable and and an electric pickup - else I would just buy another MP3 player as its easier to transport and has better sound lol

Regarding the cylinder phonographs, how long do the cylinders take to wear down?

[phonophan79]

I'm not a cylinder expert, but I think proper care, storage and handling is more of an issue than wearing them down from playing them.

A good cylinder reference site...
go to http://www.cylinder.de/ and click "cylinder guide" on the left.

[m1tch]

I'm not a cylinder expert, but I think proper care, storage and handling is more of an issue than wearing them down from playing them.

A good cylinder reference site...
go to http://www.cylinder.de/ and click "cylinder guide" on the left.

Ah yeah, I think I saw that link on a few of the youtube videos, I do like how the 'indestructable' cylinders were upgraded

I'm guessing the earlier cylinder models are lots more money?

I do like that Swiss pocket Mikophone, but they are probably quite a bit of money!

[Steve]

I've found a few HMV 102s on ebay over here going for about £175

DON'T PAY THAT for a bog standard 102, whatever you do! On Ebay they are silly prices. Don't ask me why though. You should attend the NVCF at Warwick every May, there is typically at least 100 of them to choose from and rarely are they more than £75 in black. Please remember the 102 in a standard black rexine case is as common as air. They were made from 1931 through to the late 1950's. They were still being sold new in the early to mid '60's! They are great little machines but if you must have one I would recommend getting one of the more unusual colour cases. Red, green and blue are also quite common now but look quite attractive with it. They should be no more than £120-180 depending on condition. Personally, I would avoid any 102 unless it's in near mint or better condition for the reasons already stated. The rarest version is the gold plated and leather cased variant. I guess you don;t want that though so why not wait until May and get a smart coloured 102 for a sensible price or maybe a mint black one for no more than £100?

I do like that Swiss pocket Mikophone, but they are probably quite a bit of money!

It depends. The Swiss machine is a real collectors' piece as it represents what is probably the smallest gramophone ever made and it is well made for a miniature portable. However, they sound awful! I have a complete example (with carrying case / needle tin / instructions / box etc) and it stays in the box 99% of the time! It's not really a practical machine or one that you can enjoy playing records with. Does that make it a 'trophy' machine only?

I would just buy another MP3 player as its easier to transport and has better sound

Better sound? You're kidding us, right? MP3 is almost universally regarded as the least satisfactory way to listen to 'digital' music. It's about 10% missing off the standard music file found on common CD's. Even the latter are regarded as a poor substitute for vinyl LP, which again is a lesser format than the old 45rpm. Some argue that 78's were superior sounding to vinyl 45's albeit the material they were made from was definitely inferior. There's a pattern emerging here; the farther you go back in time, the better sounding everything was!

I'm not an absolute vinyl-phile but I'm finding most 'remastered' music released today very difficult and tiring to listen to. Analogue rules!

I'm thinking an 'LP' vinyl machine.

If you attend the Warwick fair as I suggested to you earlier in this post, you will also find heaps of 'vintage audio' from valve amps through to nearly modern turntables. If you REALLY want to impress your friends and have a conversation piece with LP playing capabilities, look no further than the Linn LP12 Sondek. I saw one sell for £400 earlier this year and it was a £1500 deck fully complete when sold new about 7 years ago. Not only was this a bargain but you'll instantly wish to discard anything digital when you hear it. Your friends will be GREEN and probably say something like "Wow, I never knew a record could sound so great!".

All gramophones (mechanical motor type) only play 78rpm speed and the humble shellac record. Please don't confuse the two!

[m1tch]

I've found a few HMV 102s on ebay over here going for about £175

DON'T PAY THAT for a bog standard 102, whatever you do! On Ebay they are silly prices. Don't ask me why though. You should attend the NVCF at Warwick every May, there is typically at least 100 of them to choose from and rarely are they more than £75 in black. Please remember the 102 in a standard black rexine case is as common as air. They were made from 1931 through to the late 1950's. They were still being sold new in the early to mid '60's! They are great little machines but if you must have one I would recommend getting one of the more unusual colour cases. Red, green and blue are also quite common now but look quite attractive with it. They should be no more than £120-180 depending on condition. Personally, I would avoid any 102 unless it's in near mint or better condition for the reasons already stated. The rarest version is the gold plated and leather cased variant. I guess you don;t want that though so why not wait until May and get a smart coloured 102 for a sensible price or maybe a mint black one for no more than £100?

I do like that Swiss pocket Mikophone, but they are probably quite a bit of money!

It depends. The Swiss machine is a real collectors' piece as it represents what is probably the smallest gramophone ever made and it is well made for a miniature portable. However, they sound awful! I have a complete example (with carrying case / needle tin / instructions / box etc) and it stays in the box 99% of the time! It's not really a practical machine or one that you can enjoy playing records with. Does that make it a 'trophy' machine only?

I would just buy another MP3 player as its easier to transport and has better sound

Better sound? You're kidding us, right? MP3 is almost universally regarded as the least satisfactory way to listen to 'digital' music. It's about 10% missing off the standard music file found on common CD's. Even the latter are regarded as a poor substitute for vinyl LP, which again is a lesser format than the old 45rpm. Some argue that 78's were superior sounding to vinyl 45's albeit the material they were made from was definitely inferior. There's a pattern emerging here; the farther you go back in time, the better sounding everything was!

I'm not an absolute vinyl-phile but I'm finding most 'remastered' music released today very difficult and tiring to listen to. Analogue rules!

I'm thinking an 'LP' vinyl machine.

If you attend the Warwick fair as I suggested to you earlier in this post, you will also find heaps of 'vintage audio' from valve amps through to nearly modern turntables. If you REALLY want to impress your friends and have a conversation piece with LP playing capabilities, look no further than the Linn LP12 Sondek. I saw one sell for £400 earlier this year and it was a £1500 deck fully complete when sold new about 7 years ago. Not only was this a bargain but you'll instantly wish to discard anything digital when you hear it. Your friends will be GREEN and probably say something like "Wow, I never knew a record could sound so great!".

All gramophones (mechanical motor type) only play 78rpm speed and the humble shellac record. Please don't confuse the two!

Thank you so much for taking the time to post that looks like I will be looking around different fairs and such soon

Are there any good online shops that sell good examples? Or is it more the case of going round to fairs and forums such as this that understand these fab pieces of audio history?

It looks like I will start out with a 102 then, maybe in an unconventional colour, would it be bad to modify an original 102? should I maybe get a 'project' sort of 102 with good internals but battered case to do up?

[Steve]

A battered 102 will be worth little and its price should reflect that. Buy one and recover it in a non-standard funky colour? Why not, you've got nothing to lose and you won't be destroying history. Remember there's plenty more out there.

There are a few dealers in the UK although most are not recommended unless you are after something very specific that one of them has got at a reasonable price. Keep check on antique shops, boot fairs, garage sales, auction rooms etc.

NVCF is your best bet though as a newbie as you will get the a one-off opportunity to see what the market is offering from dealers / collectors from all over the UK. The prices are cheaper for the common stuff as there are numerous examples for sale and therefore they can't ask "Ebay money" for them.

[Steve]

Are there any good online shops that sell good examples?

Sadly not!

There's nothing wrong in recovering a case if you buy the machine cheaply. You're not destroying history as there are lots of machines left and you should be able to buy one very cheaply. I don't know where you are in the UK but I would also check out local salerooms, garage sales, antique shops, boot sales, collectors fairs etc.

And the NVCF of course, which will give you an ideal opportunity to see what's available from all the dealers and collectors everywhere in one place.

[m1tch]

Ah ok, I just needed to check it would be ok to mod the casing, I'm thinking of doing it in a steampunk style. For example this CD that has been turned into an analogue sort of player



Or maybe an ipod dock and speaker:

[Steve]

LOL!

I'm afraid you'll have to explain the whole "steampunk" thing to me.......

Geez.....I must be getting old!