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Edisone, thank you for the French Polishing tip. I may very well try that.




martinola, I did not purchase that shellac. I was stating that was all they had, besides clear.


I'd prefer a Mahogany tinted one if possible, seeing how the wood has a red tint to it. I was thinking perhaps the mahogany could darken it up some, because that red color is somewhat unappealing, in my eyes, plus, it was original more of a mahogany color before stripping began.


How much shellac would you guys think I need? The "Bulls Eye" is already pre mixed, and specifically states "DO NOT DILLUTE" and comes in quart cans for ~ $10.00.

I did not see any flakes, but do they come in similar containers?

Seeing how many times I will need to recoat the shellac, would a gallon be WAY to much, or is that more on the right track?


And on that same note, Bulls Eye is stated as being semi-glossy, and not high gloss.

Is there another good brand that offers a high gloss finish?

The brand of shellac you have found is the one I have used for years with no problems as long as its fresh or not out of date. I am not sure mine says not to thin as mine is always thinned with denatured alcohol, otherwise it wouldn't spread right. One quart should be way more than enough.. If your going over an old finish it wouldn't usually take more than a couple thin coats. If your starting on bare wood then yes, your going to need more coats.
To my knowledge the shellac does not come in colors other than the amber or orange you have. It will look darker with each coat also. When your finished coating the machine let it dry a few days then rub it down with baby oil and rottenstone on a felt pad. Then clean it off with mineral spirits and when its dry wax it with a good grade of paste wax. You don't want that really super gloss that shellac dries to, it will bring out every defect. By rubbing it down and waxing it gives the wood a warmth and depth you won't get with just the shellac as it comes from the can.
Research rubbing shellac down on the net, tons of sites that will tell you how to do it without getting into trouble.

I should have mentioned that the final coat is only going to look as good as the work you have done on the cabinet before the finish goes on. A blotchy finish is only going to look worse with a new one over it. The only way to having a good job is to remove or repair the finish to the point its looking good and then add the new finish.

SignatureSeriesOwner wrote:I did not see any flakes, but do they come in similar containers?

Flake shellac, which is sold in bags, is mixed with alcohol prior to application. It's available from most well stocked paint stores, as well as from phonograph parts suppliers such as -- http://www.antiquephono.com/cabinet.htm

Orange shellac should work well over the mahogany finish, but even a clear shellac finish will give the surface a warm amber hue, turning red into dark golden brown.

BTW, you can also buy cheap, disposable sponge "brushes" that work well for applying shellac. (Your local paint/hardware store should have them.)

I see. I suppose using clear wouldn't hurt anything. I mean, if I don't like it, I can just stop using it.



Now, it says it is a 3LB cut. I suppose 2 LB is best, yes?


Now, do I use Denatured alcohol to thin it out, or something different?





EDIT: On another note, I see that the finish is turning whit-ish in some places. Is this because the denatured alcohol is damaging the finish?

If I slightly damped the rag with Denatured Alcohol, and go with the grain of the wood gently, and go over it 4-5 times, the white film leaves, but I would like to know if that is somewhat normal, or if I am actually damaging the stain here.

SignatureSeriesOwner wrote:I see. I suppose using clear wouldn't hurt anything. I mean, if I don't like it, I can just stop using it.



Now, it says it is a 3LB cut. I suppose 2 LB is best, yes?


Now, do I use Denatured alcohol to thin it out, or something different?

I'm not sure what the difference between 2&3 pound cut is, but yes, denatured alcohol is what you mix it with. If you decided to use the flake shellac, here are a few helpful sites with more comprehensive instructions:

http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/ShellacFlake.html

http://www.shellac.net/faq.html

Personally, I've always used the premixed shellac, such as the type you mentioned above.

As for orange (amber) vs. clear, I've found that clear shellac works better on darker finishes, especially dark or black walnut. I made the mistake of applying amber shellac over dark walnut once and it ended up looking like someone streaked orange paint on top of the stain when sunlight hit the cabinet at certain angles. For a standard mahogany finish, such as the type you've applied, either amber or clear should work well.

BTW, I was also able to find some instructions for diluting the premixed shellac, if you need it:

http://www.zinsser.com/viewPDF.asp?pdf=TDB/be_shllac

Thank you. I guess I'll go with the clear on this one. Thanks!


I imagine it just thins it out more (makes it go further) and makes it easier to apply. I also considered the foam(?) applicator brushes, but someone here said they did not work well with shellac. Have you tried that approach?



(Not sure if you saw this, but)


EDIT: On another note, I see that the finish is turning whit-ish in some places. Is this because the denatured alcohol is damaging the finish?

If I slightly damped the rag with Denatured Alcohol, and go with the grain of the wood gently, and go over it 4-5 times, the white film leaves, but I would like to know if that is somewhat normal, or if I am actually damaging the stain here.

Hi Again.

I think the white-ish stuff you're seeing is trapped moisture under remaining old finish or waxes. (Or in any case the old finish has bloomed to the top and is no longer part of the bottom layer, (which is mostly stain at this point), making it appear white. It doesn't take much humidity to do that. The alcohol acts as a solvent and will remove some of it and re-combine what is left. The good news is that the shellac will seal that to some extent. It's always an iffy proposition when leaving the original stain, because it's hard to tell where to stop before you remove stuff you want to keep. On the other hand, if you leave too much of the old crud, it could screw up the ability of the new finish to properly seal and cure. Don't let that scare you, I'm just saying take it slow and observe how things are going together. You might care to take a look at a restoration I did using the shellac you're thinking of using. Here's the link:

http://victrolagramophones.proboards.co ... thread=141

If you want to add color to the shellac, you could add aniline stain to some shellac. I use Mohawk's stains, generally. Here's a link to that:

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog ... ictNbr=180

Their prices a a bit steep as they sell in fairly large quantities. You might try APSCO as they sell it in much smaller quantities. Here's their link:

http://www.antiquephono.com/cabinet.htm

Frankly, I'd be tempted to leave the color as-is and let the shellac do the final color adjustment, but that's really your call. The main thing is to document what you do so you can redo things if necessary. (For instance, get a good sharp close-up photo of the decal in case it is damaged.) In any case, let us know how it's going. It's already looking much better.

Regards,
Martin

SSO,

If you haven't already seen it, take a look at the restoral I did which is similar to yours: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=2&t=2857

The method I used to apply the shellac, essentially identical to GramaphoneShanes, gave me very good results.

The Zinzer shellac is very good quality, we are lucky they market it and it is readily available. You need to decide whether you want clear or amber.

I mentioned in an earlier reply that you should be able to determine what color shellac was used by observing the resulting color in the removal rags. If the look dirty, it was clear. If they look like dirty orange, it was orange, and if they look dirty red, then it was likely garnet.

Don't over think it, take your time. You can easily remove it if you are not satisfied.

Apparently my last post didn't go through.



Sorry for taking so long to get around to doing this, I had to wait for pollen season to end before I could let various parts be in the open air for an hour or so at a time.

I have gone with the clear shellac, and for smaller parts, I am using a 2" brush with a "short" handle...anyway, designed for refinishing and delicate work, with the hand being 2" away from the brush hairs. Seems to be working really well.

So far, I am applying the shellac to the piece that holds the tonearm/needle cups, and after 3 coats, it's looking pretty spiffy. I do have a couple of questions though.

I am following the directions on the can, and applying 2-3 very thin coats, waiting an hour, then hitting it lightly with 320 grit sandpaper, then reapplying. After each coat, a white "haze" appears for a little while. Is this a "warning sign" or merely air escaping through the shellac? And also, how glossy can I expect this to get? After 3 coats, it reflects well enough so I can make out my face and various facial features fairly distinctly, but it is not a "mirror" by any means. Will it just keep getting shinier as I add more coats? There is a "level" of shine I want to attain that is near this, but, will it get much better if I apply more coats? I don't want to be wasting product.

Thanks!