1917 Columbia Graphophone at Auction - Thursday, 6:30 PM

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barnettrp21122
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Re: 1917 Columbia Graphophone at Auction - Thursday, 6:30 PM

Post by barnettrp21122 »

Jerry B. wrote:Is that a sample long play Diamond Disk? Jerry
Yeah, I sneaked that one in to see if anyone would notice! :D

I've seen the regular sample disks before with excerpts from new releases, but this 12-inch demo has five full selections on each side.
They're dubbed from 10-inch pressings, just as the other long play discs are, so the sound is weak, with extra surface noise. Plus, the selection of tunes is rather dreadful!
No wonder this format was doomed from the start!

Bob
Last edited by barnettrp21122 on Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1917 Columbia Graphophone at Auction - Thursday, 6:30 PM

Post by auctioneer »

Here's a picture of the crack - break in the arm.
Image
I found a record labeled Columbia Graphophone and it worked better than the Pathé, however stuck in a few spots. Record condition wasn't great, so I'm sure that's a factor. Thanks to everyone for all the help,
Terry

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Re: 1917 Columbia Graphophone at Auction - Thursday, 6:30 PM

Post by brianu »

"auctioneer"...

seriously, what you have, what you're going to be selling, is not really rare at all and, even if in excellent condition and fully functional (which your example is not - considering, at the very least, the cracked tonearm elbow... a big problem with these columbias), you'd be luck to see it pull in about $200. but this one, considering the condition, I'd be surprised if it sells for half as much. it's really not worth the time pursuing more information about it - hopefully this isn't the big-ticket item of your sale.

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Re: 1917 Columbia Graphophone at Auction - Thursday, 6:30 PM

Post by SonnyPhono »

Wow...I wouldn't go so far as to say "it's really not worth the time pursuing more information about it". In fact that is 100% his prerogative. Especially considering what he has written in one of his entries regarding his intentions. He specifically pointed out his desire to become more educated with respect to antique phonographs by saying, "one reason I am here is to learn, so I will be more knowledgeable in the future." That being said, I think he is entitled to pursue as much information about the phonograph as he would like.

Not one time did he imply that the phonograph to be auctioned is "rare" or is a "big ticket item". He merely posted a thread to let phonograph collectors know that this particular phonograph will be coming up in an auction for the sake that someone here may be interested in bidding. I see no harm in that.

Of course, comments were made about the Pathé record on the turntable, and I have to admit that I cringed a bit too when I saw it. But I think we should cut the guy some slack. Isn't it fair to say that every member of this forum had a point in time when they had to learn about the differences between laterally cut and vertically cut records? The auctioneer didn't know the difference just as we didn't at one point in time. I think it's up to us to provide him with some insight just as someone probably provided insight for each of us. As he said, he is trying to learn so he can be more knowledgeable in the future about these things. The least we can do is help him with his questions. I would be willing to bet if was advertising a really rare phonograph coming up at auction that the replies would tend to be more helpful and less abrasive. Just my opinion though...could be completely wrong.

Terry, many of the Columbia phonographs used pot metal in the production of the tonearms and tonearm bases. Pot metal tends to swell over time and often times these parts are found in a seized state. They are brittle and can be tricky to free up after seizing. I would imagine that the sticking of the record you described isn't in fact the record. I imagine its the pot metal tonearm base that has become tight consequently restricting the reproducer's ability to track the record grooves properly. I could be wrong though. It may in fact be the record. Either way, whoever ends up with the phonograph would need to replace the entire tonearm and base to achieve proper sound quality/volume.

Good luck at the auction. Brian was right about his price estimates. I would be surprised if it brings more than $100. But look at it this way, you learned some valuable information by posting this thread. :)

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Re: 1917 Columbia Graphophone at Auction - Thursday, 6:30 PM

Post by brianu »

true. that was harsh. I apologize for the tone. I've been helping my parents sell a lot of things lately that they've been storing, and have been dealing with too many people through craigslist who low ball on everything and, no matter how much you ask for something (even if it's next to nothing) still offer half that number. they all want something for nothing, unless it's theirs, in which case they typically seem to think it's gold. the comment was just written out of entirely unrelated frustration. ignore it.

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Re: 1917 Columbia Graphophone at Auction - Thursday, 6:30 PM

Post by SonnyPhono »

I feel your pain Brian! Craigslist can be a great thing, but can be beyond frustrating too.

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Re: 1917 Columbia Graphophone at Auction - Thursday, 6:30 PM

Post by auctioneer »

Tinkerbell and Gentlemen,
Thanks for the comments and information. Your estimates are about what I expect, which is 75 to 100. No this is not a premier item, just interesting to me and this forum is very helpful. As a side note, the Victor I we had last month went for $450. Jerry B in Albany, just down the road, please stop by anytime your in the area.
Best regards,
Terry

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Re: 1917 Columbia Graphophone at Auction - Thursday, 6:30 PM

Post by Valecnik »

barnettrp21122 wrote:
Jerry B. wrote:Is that a sample long play Diamond Disk? Jerry
Yeah, I sneaked that one in to see if anyone would notice! :D

I've seen the regular sample disks before with excerpts from new releases, but this 12-inch demo has six full selections on each side.
They're dubbed from 10-inch pressings, just as the other long play discs are, so the sound is weak, with extra surface noise. Plus, the selection of tunes is rather dreadful!
No wonder this format was doomed from the start!

Bob
Wow I didn't know that long play sample discs even existed although I guess it's logical. How can you tell one is a long play. Nothing on the label indicates that and they also made 12" standard sample records. In the unlikely event that I ever came across one, I could easily make the mistake of playing it with a regular reproducer and ruin it.

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barnettrp21122
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Re: 1917 Columbia Graphophone at Auction - Thursday, 6:30 PM

Post by barnettrp21122 »

Valecnik wrote:
barnettrp21122 wrote:
Jerry B. wrote:Is that a sample long play Diamond Disk? Jerry
Yeah, I sneaked that one in to see if anyone would notice! :D

I've seen the regular sample disks before with excerpts from new releases, but this 12-inch demo has six full selections on each side.
They're dubbed from 10-inch pressings, just as the other long play discs are, so the sound is weak, with extra surface noise. Plus, the selection of tunes is rather dreadful!
No wonder this format was doomed from the start!

Bob
Wow I didn't know that long play sample discs even existed although I guess it's logical. How can you tell one is a long play. Nothing on the label indicates that and they also made 12" standard sample records. In the unlikely event that I ever came across one, I could easily make the mistake of playing it with a regular reproducer and ruin it.

Yes, this is definitely a longplay sample record. I found it with some other discs in a box in an old used furniture store out in Great Falls, Montana many years ago.
The record isn't divided into individual bands. The tunes just seque from one to the next, and you can hear the change in surface noise as the tunes change. They must have set up two playback devices to make the dub to the approximately 20-minute sides.
I've never played it on vintage equipment, but have made a copy with a modern pickup. Here's one of the tracks (one of the livelier numbers, if you can imagine that!)

"When I'm Gone You'll Soon Forget" (William Van Brunt and Helen Clark)

http://www.box.net/shared/66qmr3t4y5

Bob

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