1917 Columbia Graphophone at Auction - Thursday, 6:30 PM

[auctioneer]

We have another vintage phonograph at auction. This is circa 1917 best that I can tell. In working condition, however note that a piece appears to be broken out of where the arm pivots. Good sound, although the needle wants to bounce a bit. This will be at auction in Salem, Oregon, Thursday Oct. 14 at 6:30 pm. Also, live, on-line through Proxibid, where you can also pre-bid. http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.a ... 8#topoflot




Thanks for looking,
Terry

[gramophoneshane]

although the needle wants to bounce a bit.

That wouldn't surprize me if you you were attempting to play that "vertical cut" Pathé record on a machine designed to play "lateral cut" recordings.
With a hole in the tonearm & the Pathé record on the turntable, it kind of makes it hard to believe your story about this machine sounds great.
Being a deaer/auctioneer, you'd think you'd learn at least a little about the items you're attempting to sell.
A picture of the damage on the tonearm might be helpful too.

[Tinkerbell]

Oh... that second picture with the needle on the Pathé record makes my hair stand on end, like fingernails on a chalkboard.

But in all fairness to the auctioneer, they do auction off so many items, there is little opportunity to educate oneself on the finer points of every item they sell. Up until a few months ago, I would have not known the difference myself... so what seem obvious to us, would not necessarily be something a non-collector would even know to question. JMO, of course.

[gramophoneshane]

That is very true Tinkerbell.
It can also make it easier to decide which auctioneers to sell through, or buy from

[Tinkerbell]

It can also make it easier to decide which auctioneers to sell through, or buy from

That is most DEFINITELY true!!

[auctioneer]

although the needle wants to bounce a bit.

That wouldn't surprize me if you you were attempting to play that "vertical cut" Pathé record on a machine designed to play "lateral cut" recordings.
With a hole in the tonearm & the Pathé record on the turntable, it kind of makes it hard to believe your story about this machine sounds great.
Being a deaer/auctioneer, you'd think you'd learn at least a little about the items you're attempting to sell.
A picture of the damage on the tonearm might be helpful too.

The Pathé record was what was on the turntable when it was removed from the consigners attic. Please tell me what vintage record I should try with it and I'll report the results. I said "good sound", not "great sound", meaning that the machine does indeed play. And, one reason I am here is to learn, so I will be more knowledgeable in the future. Tomorrow I'll add a picture of the tone arm.
Thanks to everyone for your comments and feedback.
Terry

[Tinkerbell]

There are others that are more learned in this area than myself, but in essence, the record you have on the phonograph in the picture is a vertical cut record and requires a certain type of reproducer and needle to properly play it without degrading the music quality and damaging the record.

They also referred to vertical recordings as hill and dale recordings because the Pathé sapphire needle used to play these vertical cut records would travel up and down along the record groove, whereas traditional records were recorded laterally and used a steel needle to pick up the vibrations along the lateral surfaces. Nary the twain should meet.

If you are using a regular reproducer which holds a common lateral steel needle, you use it to play lateral records (the old Victor Victrola brand records, for example). The Pathé record you have pictured (with the rooster) would be played on a machine with a Pathé reproducer which houses a sapphire needle and plays at a different angle.

I may not be the best at articulating the finer nuances of recording types versus phono hardware, but would just like to give you a general understanding of why you would not want to play a regular needle on that particular record.

Perhaps another will pipe in with a bit more info...

[auctioneer]

Thanks Tinkerbell!
Is there a reference to which labels are which of the older ones? I know on the Victrola I had before that the older Victrola records worked best. Should I try older Columbia records?
Again, thanks,
Terry

[barnettrp21122]

Terry:
I give you extra points for persisting with your research!

Here are some examples of correct acoustic records to play on this machine:

Columbia Disc-World War I era acoustic:

Common Victor "Batwing" acoustic label

Never try to play the thick Edison records with such a reproducer. You'll ruin the record!

Although you'd think a Columbia record would sound best on a Columbia machine, I prefer the Victor sound on just about anything. The volume is louder with more presence, in my opinion.

Good luck with the sale.
Bob

[Jerry B.]

Is that a sample long play Diamond Disk? Jerry