The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

OrthoFan wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:53 am

epigramophone wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:40 am ...As for electrical amplification, the pictures show that the machine is fitted with an electric pickup head instead of a soundbox. Whether it has a built in amplifier, or whether it has to be connected to an external source, is something which needs clarification....

According to what Carsten Fischer posted on myvintagetv, the electrically amplified model would have had a built-in amplifier --

In late 1929 the Model 1 changer was offered as a electrically amplified Gramophone with a 4 vacuum tube amplifier and an electrodynamic speaker at a price of £ 200 and over depending on options selected.

FROM: http://myvintagetv.com/updatepages1/HMV1A.htm

Hopefully, the seller can clarify whether this is an acoustic model that has been modified, or whether it was factory equipped for electrical amplification.

OF

In the Oakley/Proudfoot reference book "His Master's Gramophone" it's mentioned that the acoustic model 1 automatic was offered as an electrically amplified Model 15. Many of these originated as Model 1 that had been returned to the factory and then converted to Model 15.
The Ebay photos show some service notes mentioning the amplifier features, and the main photo shows an extra panel on the lower right side of the cabinet, possibly part of the amplification system. The electric pickup and non-tapering tone arm are other features of the Model 15.
I'd be all over this if it were stateside!
Bob

When I spoke to the seller, they mentioned it is missing the amp and a speaker. They are near Liverpool

I think the stupidly complicated mechanicals are a thing of beauty, and the cabinet is nice too! Getting something that size down from Liverpool would be too big a hassle though, otherwise it would have already been in my music room by now

OrthoFan wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:53 am

epigramophone wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:40 am ...As for electrical amplification, the pictures show that the machine is fitted with an electric pickup head instead of a soundbox. Whether it has a built in amplifier, or whether it has to be connected to an external source, is something which needs clarification....

According to what Carsten Fischer posted on myvintagetv, the electrically amplified model would have had a built-in amplifier --

In late 1929 the Model 1 changer was offered as a electrically amplified Gramophone with a 4 vacuum tube amplifier and an electrodynamic speaker at a price of £ 200 and over depending on options selected.

FROM: http://myvintagetv.com/updatepages1/HMV1A.htm

Hopefully, the seller can clarify whether this is an acoustic model that has been modified, or whether it was factory equipped for electrical amplification.

OF

Thank you for the link, OF, that's useful to have. Obviously this machine has an electro magnetic pickup but these could be fitted to acoustic machines as an upgrade so, as you say, clarification is needed as to whether this is a re-entrant horn model (as the tonearm might suggest) retrofitted with electro magnetic pickup or a purpose built electric gramophone with loudspeaker.

Ahmed wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:08 pm When I spoke to the seller, they mentioned it is missing the amp and a speaker. They are near Liverpool

I think the stupidly complicated mechanicals are a thing of beauty, and the cabinet is nice too! Getting something that size down from Liverpool would be too big a hassle though, otherwise it would have already been in my music room by now

I got a 202 from Devon in my estate car and that is as tall as this is wide so where there's a will there's a way!

With that said, if its missing the amp and speaker, it is woefully overpriced in my humble opinion. And I'm usually a much less conservative valuer of these machines than most folk here.

slippery wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:04 pm https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275603947852 ... name=11050

This is so unfortunate that the whole instrument is not for sale. Parts only sale is just non-sense.

Watanabehi wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:50 pm

slippery wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:04 pm https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275603947852 ... name=11050

This is so unfortunate that the whole instrument is not for sale. Parts only sale is just non-sense.

I repeat the whole surviving instrument is for sale (apart from the parts which are obviously missing). The listing was changed to reflect this.

The seller takes things apart and sells them. There is a radio chassis and for 3,000 and the cabinet for 45. And things like amplifiers for sale. If it was an original 1929/30 Electrola my guess is the amplifier and speaker was recently sold. Maybe for more than a phonograph collector would pay for a complete machine. Has anyone asked for pictures of the inside? That would tell a lot.

Steve wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:44 pm

Ahmed wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:08 pm When I spoke to the seller, they mentioned it is missing the amp and a speaker. They are near Liverpool

I think the stupidly complicated mechanicals are a thing of beauty, and the cabinet is nice too! Getting something that size down from Liverpool would be too big a hassle though, otherwise it would have already been in my music room by now

I got a 202 from Devon in my estate car and that is as tall as this is wide so where there's a will there's a way!

With that said, if its missing the amp and speaker, it is woefully overpriced in my humble opinion. And I'm usually a much less conservative valuer of these machines than most folk here.

I know from a friend that they needed four men to carry a W2 Electrola out of the basement of a former music dealer in Görlitz, Germany. The only thing from the Shop left as the red army looted the store - they tried to steal this one too but it was much to heavy and off course needed electricity - so they left it there after damaging the grill.

NEKTREG wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 6:53 pm

Steve wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:44 pm

Ahmed wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:08 pm When I spoke to the seller, they mentioned it is missing the amp and a speaker. They are near Liverpool

I think the stupidly complicated mechanicals are a thing of beauty, and the cabinet is nice too! Getting something that size down from Liverpool would be too big a hassle though, otherwise it would have already been in my music room by now

I got a 202 from Devon in my estate car and that is as tall as this is wide so where there's a will there's a way!

With that said, if its missing the amp and speaker, it is woefully overpriced in my humble opinion. And I'm usually a much less conservative valuer of these machines than most folk here.

I know from a friend that they needed four men to carry a W2 Electrola out of the basement of a former music dealer in Görlitz, Germany. The only thing from the Shop left as the red army looted the store - they tried to steal this one too but it was much to heavy and off course needed electricity - so they left it there after damaging the grill.

Two people can lift a 202 (talking from experience as I've moved mine 3 times) which contains the biggest re-entrant horn put inside any cabinet gramophone of the era. The horn is made from zinc and is extremely heavy in itself. In my case the machine also has the large cast oil bath motor. I appreciate the auto changer mechanisms are also very heavy but if we're talking about electric loudspeaker v re-entrant horn I know which one I'd rather lift!

Perhaps someone with details of the comparative weights could chime in as I'd be interested to know the differences between say a Model 1A, 15 and a 202/3, just in case I need to organise the transportation of a 15 for example!

I have an Automatic Model 12, which Proudfoot explains is the all-electric version of the Model 10. It comes with a 7-valve (tube) amplifier - five stages, push-pull KT63s plus rectifier) Have yet to restore it, but the changer works. As the KT63 valve was introduced in 1937, we can conclude that the amp is not original, but it fits in well.

Apparently the No. 10 did not appear in any catalogues. I haven't seen a No. 12 in any either. Does anyone have any further information on the 12?

Thanks!

David