The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

@CarlosV

@Oedipus

@ Any other Bestone owners

NB: I would also be pleased if anyone else were to chime in with helpful advice.

The Big Question

Does the reproducer rotate up to ease needle changing or is it fixed in place?

The housing has milled reeded edges which suggests that they are there as a grip assist, either to turn the repoducer for needle changing or for assembly/disassembly if the reproducer and back-plate are threaded and screw together.

On my reproducer, the reeded edges would seem to be entirely decorative. The reproducer seemingly cannot turn nor does it screw together. The back-plate is held on with screws.

Discussion:

The design of the reproducer is eccentric and perhaps needlessly complicated with a lot of parts and gaskets.

Here is an exploded view:
The diaphragm should probably be replaced. There is mica separation around the screw hole in the middle. It could be made serviceable by using an old trick I noticed on one of my Aeolian Vocaiion machine diaphragms-light shellac application in the damaged area--thin shellac can be quite searching and can penetrate between the lays of mica. But it is better to replace it-replacements readily available. It is 2 and 1/16 inches in diameter, sadly 1/16 of an inch smaller than any spares I have.


Curious things:

There is no rim gasket between the back-flange and the back-plate. Mine appeared to have been sealed with bees wax. There is, however, a small circular gasket, which if not shrunken, would seal against a smaller insert flange/tube inside the larger exterior back-flange. The insert flange/tube goes into the end of the tone arm and is held in place with a set screw in the tone arm.
There is a slot cut in the back-flange for a pin which is inserted into the smaller insert flange/tube. The outside end of the pin is covered with a small piece of gasket tubing. This pin prevents the reproducer from rotating on the internal flange tube. I am wondering if Bestone was trying to figure out a way to have the reproducer rotate for needle changing and just gave up, inserting a pin rather than a click lock mechanism.
There is another gasket between the back-flange and the insert, one made of gasket tubing.
This reproducer has so very many places of potential leakage. It will be a challenging rebuild, I think.

Corrosion:

I will have to give some parts, the back-flange, screws, etc, a rust remover bath.

I don't know what this will do to the plating on the exterior back flange. I may end up sanding it down, filling pits, and giving it a good coat of aluminium rust pait. The paint would match the general aluminim look of the machine.

The screws, easy peasy--rust remover bath and rebluing.

The back-plate, however, cannot go into a rust bath because of the paper Bestone logo glued to it (see above). I will need to be careful and inventive here. Ideas/suggestions?

A three more pics for interest's sake

The speed control mechanism

The brake: the mounting plate here needs some help with corrosion. I am not sure, yet, how to approach this as the assembly does not come apart. The rubber brake pad is also worn down to the metal.
The combination drip pan and springy/flexible record retainer (before being cleaned up with Goof Off.}

The platter before vacuuming and heat treatment
The underside
The only marking on the underside
After vacuuming and heat treatment: If hide glue has been used, it can often be loosened and/or reattached with heat. I have used this technique to re-attach loose rexine and to take bubbles out of rexine. I use a clothes iron on high heat. Here with the velvet, I was not entirely successful at re-attaching the fabric. I generally use a cotton terry towel rag between the iron and what is being ironed, and I have the iron on maximum heat, linen setting. Today I could not find a suitable rag; they all seem to be in the laundry, so I used the iron directly on lower heat. It was only partially successful. I may try again latter when I have an appropriate rag.

Nice restoration thread.

The leather is much improved. It now has a well used look, rather than an uncared for water damaged look.

James.

Lah Ca wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:18 pm
Does the reproducer rotate up to ease needle changing or is it fixed in place?

Hi Lah Ca. Nice restoration! In response to your question, the reproducer in my machine is not designed to rotate up like the early Columbias. As you see in the photo below, there is a screw to fix it in place. Evidently it can rotate if you release the screw, but it is not practical to unscrew it every time you want to change a needle.

Roaring20s wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 8:38 pm Nice restoration thread.

The leather is much improved. It now has a well used look, rather than an uncared for water damaged look.

James.

Thanks.

Language is so ambiguous. Here's hoping that, in the end, nice applies to both the thread and the restoration.

CarlosV wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:50 am Hi Lah Ca. Nice restoration!

Thanks.

CarlosV wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:50 am In response to your question, the reproducer in my machine is not designed to rotate up like the early Columbias. As you see in the photo below, there is a screw to fix it in place. Evidently it can rotate if you release the screw, but it is not practical to unscrew it every time you want to change a needle.

Judging from vicarious experience (pictures, videos, and this site), not having had a lot of hands on direct personal experience with sound boxes, I will perhaps go out on a limb here and say that the Bestone Celebrity is certainly an oddball reproducer, As stated above, the only reason that I can think of for having such a strange back flange assembly (extra fabrication and labour costs as opposed to a single piece/single gasket unit) is if they had been trying to come up with a rotation mechanism but then just abandoned the attempt and made do with half-baked prototype pieces.

I think both the tone arm and internal flange/tube are aluminium, and while aluminium is more durable than pot metal, repeatedly loosening and tightening the screw to assist with changing needles is probably not a good idea, anyway. Then there would be the issue of getting the needle rake back into the sweet zone.

I note that your machine has the holes for mounting needle cups. I hope yours is equipped with the cups (and I will be mildly envious if it is).
Cheers.

Lah Ca wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2024 10:05 am

I note that your machine has the holes for mounting needle cups. I hope yours is equipped with the cups (and I will be mildly envious if it is).

Yes, it has, they are retractable.

Concerning the soundbox, I do not see anything out of the ordinary in comparison with others of the period. It is more common that the cylinder that enters into the arm normally has a hole to fit in the screw, so the soundbox always stays in the correct clocking position, but I've seen others like the Bestone, where it is up to the user to guess what needle angle will be set.

I am still struggling with the birfrucated rivets that hold the aluminium frame/motor board in the case. I have been trying to save them, foolishly perhaps.
Since these types of things are still available, even pre-antiqued, I think I will just drill the existing ones out carefully.
Something like this would be cooler, but this particular item seems to be bulk custom order only.
The other option might be screw rivets for luggage and leather work. I will check out what sizes these come in.

Gaskets

Does anyone have a source for white rubber washer-style gaskets or gasket material?

The Bestone has two white rubber gaskets one inside the reproducer between the back plate and the back flange assembly and one on the reproducer throat between the tone arm and the reproducer. (See back plate pic above. See CarlosV's reproducer above.) Mine are sadly beyond resurrection.

Also it would be nice to make some spares for my Aeolian Vocalion reproducers.