Counterweight on the Tone Arm

[Sherazhyder]

Yes, there were various counterweights. Probably the most elegant was one made by Joe Ginn, E.M.Ginn's son, to fit the tonearms of Expert gramophones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc3Ngqcsd18

Some may disagree, but when using thorn or bamboo fibre needles I find it actually helps to have more tracking force rather than less, and I know other enthusiasts over the years have found the same - but the Expert Dynamic soundboxes (as seen in the video) are very heavy indeed!

If I correctly understand the needle in a sound box needs to put the ideal weight upon the record to produce the best possible play back quality without damaging the record. If the tracking force (the downward pressure applied by the needle) is not set correctly, the needle is very likely to sit too heavily or too lightly on the grooves. Heavy tracking weight may distort the sound, reduce the detail, and damage the shellac, whereas needle with light tracking force may be thrown up wards making the tone arm skate across the record. Thus, one first needs to know the right tracking force to play a record on a gramophone and then add a weight to the back of the tone arm to reduce the needle's downward force . Once the right tracking force is known, counterweights can be properly adjusted for optimal audio performance. One may discover the right tracking force through hit and trial (playing with counterweights) if one trusts one's ears. Otherwise, one needs an electronic balance to measure grammage (the mass per unit area) of the tracking force. Once the tracking force is known, one needs to know the right counterweight for it. Sometime back, I read somewhere about the digital tracking force gauge, which is meant for measuring the stylus weight or the tracking force between 1.25 g and 4 gram but I trust tracking force of a gramophone needle in a sound box is beyond this range.

In the absence of a gauge designed for measuring gramophones' tracking force , what is the best way to know the tracking force of one's gramophone needle? and what is standard relationship between tracking force and counterweight?

[Sherazhyder]

I made this counterweight system for my VV-VI to balance the weight of the copper tube that I added to create more offset to improve tracking (which is now very good at + or - 3 degrees or less, across the record. 3 ⅝” offset, ½” overlap. See attached table).
I have also added counterweight systems to other machines and used to run 70 to 80 grams (about half of stock weight), but lately I have been using more weight (120 to 140 grams), thinking that if the thorn or fibre needle were more firmly in the groove it would rattle laterally less (say that three times quickly!) and therefore the sides of the needle tip would wear more slowly.
I should do some experimenting with this and take notes and photos of the needle tips post-play.

Thank you for introducing and showing your machine fitted with the counterweights. But I could not understand the table. Will you please explain how did you measure the tracking force of your machine? Does this table define the relationship between tracking force and counterweight ? what is the precise point where the counterweight should be applied? and is there any specific alignment of tone arm (or the sound box) and the counterweight required before setting the right balance of tracking force and counterweight?
Regards
Sheraz

[Sherazhyder]

Did you have to cut out the tonearm base tab that prevents it to go further to the left than the spindle? I've encountered this problem when adding pipe length to improve tracking. That's why I use a shorter pipe, but with an added angle. Will add photos later. My tonearm cannot pass the spindle to the left. Mine is the French HMV equivalent to the VV-VI.

Hi Inigo ! my apologies I could not understand the problem that you faced when increasing the pipe length to improve tracking? Will you please explain it in some detail?

Thanks
Sheraz

[Sherazhyder]

This simple counterweight was a standard fitment on most Micro-Perophone Chromogram models.
The Chromogram was my everyday player until the EMG/Expert bug bit me. It is one of the best cabinet gramophones that most people have never heard of, and I have described it in some detail in a previous thread.

Epigramophone ! Thank you for introducing me to this machine. The simplicity of tone arm design of this machine seems to have helped in easily aligning the two points and adding the counterweight.

Regards
Sheraz

[Starkton]

For a long time I have been using this counterweight to reduce the 140 gram tracking force of the Exhibition soundbox. The weight is adjusted by means of a thread. When using medium needles, most of my discs, if they are in good condition, play best with 50 grams. By cutting the gooseneck, using a spare part, I reduced the tracking error considerably, from 20 - 25° to 1 - 4°: https://grammophon-platten.de/e107_plug ... 35225.last

[Hoodoo]

Sherazhyder, the chart I posted deals with tracking error, not tracking weight.
I added the counterweight because my tracking modification increased the weight at the needle tip.
Here are more photos from that article about tracking, plus a couple pictures that may make the whole thing more clear.
Sorry they loaded in a random fashion and I don’t know how to reorder them.

[Hoodoo]

Starkton, very neat job on the gooseneck mod.

[Sherazhyder]

Sherazhyder, the chart I posted deals with tracking error, not tracking weight.
I added the counterweight because my tracking modification increased the weight at the needle tip.
Here are more photos from that article about tracking, plus a couple pictures that may make the whole thing more clear.
Sorry they loaded in a random fashion and I don’t know how to reorder them.

Thank you . Now this is understandable.
Regards
Sheraz