Counterweight on the Tone Arm

[Sherazhyder]

Today I was observing the role of a counterweight on the tone arm of my record player, when I thought about the need for a similar counterweight on the tonearm of my gramophone, which could balance it horizontally and let it shift the tracking force for improved sound quality . Was this aspect ever considered during the evolution of gramophones?

Regards
Sheraz Hyder

[Orchorsol]

Yes, there were various counterweights. Probably the most elegant was one made by Joe Ginn, E.M.Ginn's son, to fit the tonearms of Expert gramophones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc3Ngqcsd18

Some may disagree, but when using thorn or bamboo fibre needles I find it actually helps to have more tracking force rather than less, and I know other enthusiasts over the years have found the same - but the Expert Dynamic soundboxes (as seen in the video) are very heavy indeed!

[Hoodoo]

I made this counterweight system for my VV-VI to balance the weight of the copper tube that I added to create more offset to improve tracking (which is now very good at + or - 3 degrees or less, across the record. 3 ⅝” offset, ½” overlap. See attached table).
I have also added counterweight systems to other machines and used to run 70 to 80 grams (about half of stock weight), but lately I have been using more weight (120 to 140 grams), thinking that if the thorn or fibre needle were more firmly in the groove it would rattle laterally less (say that three times quickly!) and therefore the sides of the needle tip would wear more slowly.
I should do some experimenting with this and take notes and photos of the needle tips post-play.

[Inigo]

Did you have to cut out the tonearm base tab that prevents it to go further to the left than the spindle? I've encountered this problem when adding pipe length to improve tracking. That's why I use a shorter pipe, but with an added angle. Will add photos later. My tonearm cannot pass the spindle to the left. Mine is the French HMV equivalent to the VV-VI.

[epigramophone]

This simple counterweight was a standard fitment on most Micro-Perophone Chromogram models.
The Chromogram was my everyday player until the EMG/Expert bug bit me. It is one of the best cabinet gramophones that most people have never heard of, and I have described it in some detail in a previous thread.

[Hoodoo]

Inigo, I did not have to modify the tonearm pivot. It swings far enough to get the needle tip about a cm. from the turntable spindle.
On other machines, a VV-X and a Credenza, I had to change/alter the auto brake to keep it from stopping the turntable too soon. Nothing that can’t be changed back to original in minutes, though.

[Inigo]

Thanks for the explanation!

[Hoodoo]

Inigo, I should also mention that I had to make a “humpback” spacer for my VV-VI to keep the needle from extending too far beyond the spindle. The spacer is about ½”, if I remember correctly.

[Inigo]

How interesting! You'll have got a good tracking alignment with these changes.
My experimental adaptor and soundbox also track very well, but I'm now involved in experiments with metal diaphragms on it, trying to improve the sound, also modifying the needle bar suspension.

[Marco Gilardetti]

Some may disagree, but when using thorn or bamboo fibre needles I find it actually helps to have more tracking force rather than less, and I know other enthusiasts over the years have found the same - but the Expert Dynamic soundboxes (as seen in the video) are very heavy indeed!

That's coherent with what I distinctly remember reading in an official brochure or perhaps a book covering the matter - but of course I can't remember where. Perhaps it was a book/sheet about needles; if it were an official brochure, you would know it by heart.

I also remember writing a note on this board on a thread about the same subject: that many folks try to reduce the tracking force in order to prolong the life of the thorns, but the borchure/book/sheet said to do the exact opposite. (I remember just as well that my post was completely ignored). I suppose at least the thread might be searched for, but it's not an easy task unless some relevant words are remembered.