The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I phoned the auctioneers and was told the final bell mouth diameter is 72 cms or 28 ⅜ inches. It is therefore a standard Expert Senior in terms of acoustics but with a brilliant pedestal case, wonderful veneers, perfect horn and most appealing design. It is the finest I have seen. The soundbox is indeed the correct Expert four-spring.

As Steve says, the EMG story by Frank James is superb essential reading and can be accessed via Chunny's equally wonderful internet gramophone museum : https://www.gramophonemuseum.com/francis-james.html

emgcr wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 7:08 am I phoned the auctioneers and was told the final bell mouth diameter is 72 cms or 28 ⅜ inches. It is therefore a standard Expert Senior in terms of acoustics but with a brilliant pedestal case, wonderful veneers, perfect horn and most appealing design. It is the finest I have seen. The soundbox is Expert four-spring.

As Steve says, the EMG story by Frank James is superb essential reading and can be accessed via Chunny's equally wonderful internet gramophone museum : https://www.gramophonemuseum.com/francis-james.html

Well done, Graham. Even if it is 'only' the standard Expert Senior, as you say, it is so obviously a very fine example and I'm with you, I don't think I've seen a better one either.

The angle (and distortion) of the photo really does make it look much bigger than 28" though. It's not exactly a disappointment to learn that it isn't the largest horn but it really would have been something special had it have been.

I agree Steve and it could well have been an All-Range judging from the photos. I should also love to know more about the electric (induction ?) motor which has a chance of being rather special because of the high build quality.

emgcr wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 7:53 am I agree Steve and it could well have been an All-Range judging from the photos. I should also love to know more about the electric motor which has a chance of being rather special because of the high build quality.

It appears that they might have used a Collaro (?) or similar motor-plate from an earlier spring-powered motor and fixed the electric motor directly to it? It isn't an original motor in there now according to the auctioneers and judging from the photo. What are the chances that the motor is fixed to the top of the boxing to the cupboard area, I wonder?

It beggars belief that the auctioneers have not only failed to research or identify what is clearly an exceptionally interesting machine, but also have not even provided a pre-sale estimate. Have they even attempted to value it or set a reserve?
The price of incompetence is still 29.94% , and the vendor is probably none the wiser.

Unfortunately the soundbox has now been reported stolen. Poor security by the auctioneers who were hitherto unaware of its value. What a crying shame. I hope they catch the thief on CCTV.

Steve wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 9:41 am Unfortunately the soundbox has now been reported stolen. Poor security by the auctioneers who were hitherto unaware of its value. What a crying shame. I hope they catch the thief on CCTV.

What an utter disgrace. Expert 4-spring soundboxes have sold for well above £1000 in the past!

Steve wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 9:41 am Unfortunately the soundbox has now been reported stolen. Poor security by the auctioneers who were hitherto unaware of its value. What a crying shame. I hope they catch the thief on CCTV.

Oh no !

Never mind the cost (in my opinion) - I weep for the loss of history connected to this machine.

I also despair a little that people do this sort of thing. Losing faith in humanity etc.

Oh, does anyone know who owned this machine by the way ?

Steve wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 9:41 am Unfortunately the soundbox has now been reported stolen. Poor security by the auctioneers who were hitherto unaware of its value. What a crying shame. I hope they catch the thief on CCTV.

Incompetence! The auction house does not deserve to sell the things they sell! Part of me wonders if they have simply misplaced it themselves.

Probably the horn will be gone tomorrow as well ....................