The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

jamiegramo wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 4:05 pm

Inigo wrote: Mon Mar 24, 2025 12:44 pm These soundboxes with 45 degree needle, mounted on a revolver tonearm as in American machines, serve to play both vertical and lateral records. The tonearm has an elbow that can be turned so the soundbox rests at as strange angle, but the needle stays vertical on the groove ready to play laterally recorded, standard 78s.
Maybe it belongs to a machine with this feature...?

The soundbox must look very strange when playing standard 78s!

That's what I thought.

There are examples in YouTube of American Pathé machines playing 78s this way... That's where I learned this. One example is this
https://youtu.be/FMTim-50ORw?feature=shared

Inigo wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 7:34 pm There are examples in YouTube of American Pathé machines playing 78s this way... That's where I learned this. One example is this
https://youtu.be/FMTim-50ORw?feature=shared

I watched the YouTube link you sent. It seems the needle plays the record at a poor angle and I wouldn’t be happy potentially damaging a record like that. Perhaps the soundbox is not turned correctly but I suspect the machine would have had a separate soundbox for laterally cut records.

I have a Pathé Model 100 upright machine that locks the reproducer into a "universal" position with a set screw on the tonearm. In fact, it was my first mechanical phonograph, a gift from my longsuffering parents in response to incessant whining, er, frequently expressed desire on my part when I was in early high school.

I just put a video of the thing up on YouTube, playing Emma Calve singing the Habanera from Bizet's Carmen in two recordings, one a Victor needle cut lateral and the other a Pathé sapphire cut vertical. Here's a link: https://youtu.be/QopuJlUFkjA

Count me confused. I watched the video but it appears the soundbox was in the same "vertical" position for both records with the diaphragm tangential to the record groove?

drh wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:52 pm I have a Pathé Model 100 upright machine that locks the reproducer into a "universal" position with a set screw on the tonearm. In fact, it was my first mechanical phonograph, a gift from my longsuffering parents in response to incessant whining, er, frequently expressed desire on my part when I was in early high school.

I just put a video of the thing up on YouTube, playing Emma Calve singing the Habanera from Bizet's Carmen in two recordings, one a Victor needle cut lateral and the other a Pathé sapphire cut vertical. Here's a link: https://youtu.be/QopuJlUFkjA

The video was very clear, thank you, and I could see that the needle or stylus was not playing at a poor angle. We are used to seeing the reproducer set very differently depending on whether it is playing lateral or vertical cut discs, is this “universal” position as satisfactory?

Steve wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 4:34 pm Count me confused. I watched the video but it appears the soundbox was in the same "vertical" position for both records with the diaphragm tangential to the record groove?

Yes, the reproducer (I think that's actually the right term here, since it's labeled "reproducteur pour disques Pathé") sits at the same angle for all records. It's slightly off a pure right angle to the line of the tonearm but much closer to that than to the typical lateral "parallel the tonearm" arrangement on the Victor model. The stylus bar extends from it at something like a 45 degree angle. It is possible to adjust the reproducer to a more conventional right angle for vertical cut records by removing the set screw, but there are no other holes in the reproducer's integral tube to line up with the one in the tonearm, so doing that leaves you with a set screw that has no home. From that, I deduce that Pathé intended for the reproducer to be permanently at that angle for both types of record.

jamiegramo wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 7:09 pm The video was very clear, thank you, and I could see that the needle or stylus was not playing at a poor angle. We are used to seeing the reproducer set very differently depending on whether it is playing lateral or vertical cut discs, is this “universal” position as satisfactory?

You're most welcome! For years, all through high school and into college, this when fitted with a steel needle was my sole acoustic machine for lateral cut records (if you exclude an Edison C-250 when fitted with one of those not-terribly-satisfactory lateral adapters). I played a *lot* of them on it, and I never thought it sounded other than fine. What I did learn the hard way, though, is that with the needle set at that angle, a Tungstone or other multi-play stylus for needle cut records would cause major wear/injury to shellac record grooves. If pressing this machine into service to play laterals, steel is the best choice--never tried bamboo, but I'm not sure the Pathé chuck would satisfactorily hold one of those.