The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

OrthoFan wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2026 5:55 pm Based on the image from the 1921 HMV Gramophone Catalogue, it matches the Model 13 --
IMG_20260415_142959~2.jpg
However, the description provided in the catalogue states that the hardware is gold plated, but most of the interior hardware shown in the image you posted seems to be nickel plated. (The hinge, lid support and knobs appear to be gold.) Perhaps some parts were swapped/replaced over time?

HMV 13 -- SEE -- https://www.bonhams.com/auction/18273/l ... irca-1926/

Also the one you have does not show the automatic brake, so yours may actually be an earlier version of the model. Does anyone have an HMV Gramophone Catalogue from circa 1915?

OrthoFan

I doubt the parts were so perfectly swapped over. HMV had a tendency to export some models with cheaper parts from the "bins" so I wonder if this could be an export model? Also, the fact that the lid stay and hinges are gilt does not guarantee that the rest was originally fitted to match. Bear in mind that hinges and lid stays are necessary to be fitted to complete an empty cabinet in the first place. That cabinet could have been stood or moved around without innards from one place to another for some time before the inside was fitted out.

Some early models have lacquered brass lid stays and hinges / door handles etc, but were always fitted with nickel plated innards.

Jerry B. wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2026 9:54 am If your HMV Model 14 was anything like a US VV-XIV, the XIV was an early Victrola that was made for many years and went through many changes in both cabinet and mechanism. Without out a photo it is difficult to comment specifically on your question.

Jerry B.

It was indeed! The "14" became the "200" when updated with No. 2 soundbox and fatter tone-arm, and then finally a "201" with No. 4 soundbox, thin tone-arm and "saxophone" horn which copied the earlier Apollo patents.

I don't think Victor produced a "saxophone" design, instead going straight from shallow cast iron horns to the Orthophonic models? I'm curious what the model changes in between were.

Steve wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2026 4:51 am I have a 201, which was the last model produced from the unsold / unused cabinet pool with the "14" design, that HMV retrofitted with the updated innards, ie No. 4 soundbox, thin bore tone-arm, saxophone horn etc.

I can categorically state that your machine is not a 14 as the 14 (or 200 with No. 2 soundbox / 201 with No. 4) has a very distinctive serpentine cabinet with the bowed / curved sides and front. It is fully gold-plated and fitted with the No. 34 quadruple spring motor, mounted on a hinged motor-board.

I agree with Orthofan that your gramophone appears to be more like the "13" but it is more likely to be the later, re-numbered model or an export model (see my later post).

Thanks for your reply Steve. It came with the Exhibition Soundbox London Berlin Paris. The motor (according to the Proudfoot and Oakley Book) is a Triple Spring Spiral Drive 1907 - 15. The speed control is the dial type. Those doors at the back are a bit weird... It does have a brake and matching pole on arm.

Zappa6572 wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2026 7:35 am

Steve wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2026 4:51 am I have a 201, which was the last model produced from the unsold / unused cabinet pool with the "14" design, that HMV retrofitted with the updated innards, ie No. 4 soundbox, thin bore tone-arm, saxophone horn etc.

I can categorically state that your machine is not a 14 as the 14 (or 200 with No. 2 soundbox / 201 with No. 4) has a very distinctive serpentine cabinet with the bowed / curved sides and front. It is fully gold-plated and fitted with the No. 34 quadruple spring motor, mounted on a hinged motor-board.

I agree with Orthofan that your gramophone appears to be more like the "13" but it is more likely to be the later, re-numbered model or an export model (see my later post).

Thanks for your reply Steve. It came with the Exhibition Soundbox London Berlin Paris. The motor (according to the Proudfoot and Oakley Book) is a Triple Spring Spiral Drive 1907 - 15. The speed control is the dial type. Those doors at the back are a bit weird... It does have a brake and matching pole on arm.

You're very welcome. I don't have access to my 201 as I type this but I've just recalled that when I attempted to take a photo of the saxophone horn, I had great difficulty and had to reach down from under the motorboard, therefore I know there cannot be a pair of doors to the rear! If the original 14 had no doors, then it is unlikely the 13 did either. Given that your "13 look-alike" does not have the 4-spring motor motor either, I'm increasingly convinced it is an export model, possibly made specially for the Australian market?

I'm very curious to know what's behind those rear doors

Thanks everyone — this has been really helpful. I’ve been digging into the details a bit more, and a few things seem to line up quite strongly with the early export machines rather than the domestic 14/200/201 line.

A couple of points that might help clarify what I’m seeing:

1. Rear service doors
I know the domestic 14 didn’t have them, but some of the early export cabinets did — especially those sent to warmer climates where extra ventilation was needed. Mine has the half‑height rear doors with the ventilation holes above, which seems to match that pattern.

2. The motor
This is the part that really surprised me. The motor isn’t the No. 34 four‑spring unit from the 14/200/201 series. It’s the earlier Triple Spring Spiral Drive type, the long cylindrical one listed in Proudfoot & Oakley as 1907–1915. That seems too early for a domestic 14, but it fits with HMV using older premium motors for export stock.

3. Cabinet proportions and fittings
The cabinet matches the early Model 13 footprint and carving, but with the mixed gilt/nickel fittings you often see on export machines. The Exhibition soundbox (Made in USA) also feels right for an early export build.

Putting all that together, it seems most consistent with an early Model 13 export variant, possibly for Australia or another overseas market, rather than a domestic 14.

Happy to post more photos if it helps — I’m enjoying learning about these early transitional machines.

Steve wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2026 5:50 am ... I don't think Victor produced a "saxophone" design, instead going straight from shallow cast iron horns to the Orthophonic models? I'm curious what the model changes in between were.

Hi Steve:

You're correct. Instead of retrofitting un-sold cabinets with new components, Victor launched a massive half price sale of the existing models--around the summer of 1925, and prior to the November launch of the Orthophonic line. The initial line of Orthophonic Victrolas included only four models: the Credenza, which was equipped with the six foot folded horn, along with the Grenada, Colony and Consolette--all three of which had the small, non-folded straight exponential horn. The line was greatly expanded the following year. Some unused components--horns, soundboxes, tonearms, etc.--where fitted into a few of the new cabinets--notably the Export Consollette--and shipped as export models to Mexico and Latin America.

Also, thanks for the information about the parts, re the HMV export models.

OrthoFan

Thanks for all you replies. My other machines over the years have been a real mixed bag and most later. I do have a nice original and complete Odeon Disc Machine c.1906 and that is nice. The HMV we have been talking about runs well, it plays to the end and winds easily - it does however have a rhythmical chatter during turntable revolution. This is not loud enough to be heard over the music but certainly loud enough to hear well when not playing a record. I have little experince with the Triple Spring Spiral Drive type motor and wonder if noise is part of the game or is something a bit worn. I have re greased the motor and this calms it all down a bit but it is certainly present. Would rather not get involved in re greasing springs. Any thoughts. As mentioned its a rhythmical sound as if somebody is gentle pressing the keys on a typewrite in strict time.... But not crazy loud and no spring slip sounds...