Newbie Needs Help

[David Spanovich]

Hi New Owner:

If you haven't seen it, this is a handy site for finding out the recording dates of most major labels, and several minor ones, as well -- http://www.78discography.com/

DS

[New Owner]

Oh yeah, I've used that site before. Just wish it was easier to browse, and a little more, well, colorful and less '90s-ish.

[RDGCrusader]

The reproducer is usually designed to play the acoustic and early electric records. I'm assuming most of your grandmother's 78s are of 1940s big bands and/or crooners, which were designed to play on phonographs with an electric pick up, not an acoustic phonograph. While acoustic phonographs (ones with horns and spring motors) were made up until the late 1950s, the acoustic sound box wasn't designed to handle the high fidelity electrical recordings of the '40s, and the material of the later records lacks the abrasives that wear down the steel needle instead of the record (which is why you should always change the needle after 1-2 plays). Usually, the best way to approximate the date of your records is to look at the label and look it up online (for example, Columbia records with a red label and a pair of notes next to a CBS and microphone date from 1939-1958, Victor records with a scroll design on the label date from 1926-1937, etc.), or look up the disc's catalog number (ie: 4033, 26007, 81328, etc.) in a discography. The last method only works for major labels (Victor has a huuuuuuuuuge one on USCB's website, and material for Columbia, Brunswick, Mercury, etc. is fairly common), but there are plenty of discographies for smaller labels. Looking up the songs is also a handy method (made even easier if the song was featured in a movie or play). A quick way to identify acoustic records or early electrics (at least for me) is to look on the outer rim of the record. If there is a lead-in groove to guide the needle into the record, you have an electric record, and if there is no lead in groove, you most likely have an acoustic or early electric.

If you really want an outside horn phonograph, sometimes you can get lucky and snag one for a few hundred less than the average, or you can buy an old fixer-upper (they still show up occasionally on eBay for $100-200) and bring it back to life. I'd personally recommend a Victor Orthophonic/Columbia Viva-Tonal/Brunswick Panatrope (all designed for electric records) for to get the best out of your records. They're a little large, but all are fairly common and thusly can be picked up for $100-500 online or at auction.

Yes, most of them are of the mid-30s to late 40s, and all of them have lead-in grooves, but I don't even think she played them on an electric. To the best of my knowledge she played them on an acoustic portable, and if they're not made to be played on an acoustic, they don't sound as though they've been damaged. I don't know, maybe she shouldn't have played them on an acoustic.

[David Spanovich]

Yes, most of them are of the mid-30s to late 40s, and all of them have lead-in grooves, but I don't even think she played them on an electric. To the best of my knowledge she played them on an acoustic portable, and if they're not made to be played on an acoustic, they don't sound as though they've been damaged. I don't know, maybe she shouldn't have played them on an acoustic.

Hi Colin:

You might want to look over the phonographs described on this page -- http://myvintagetv.com/updatepages1/cha ... tables.htm (Click on the images to call up data about each machine.)

All of the phonographs profiled sound more like small electrical machines than acoustic models, and I know that many collectors play big band era records on them. (If you use a thorn or fiber needle, you will minimize the record wear.)

Another option would be to get one of the post-1925/1926 era cabinet models such as a Victor Orthophonic Victrola, a Columbia Viva-Tonal, a Brunswick Exponential Horn Panatrope model, etc. These were all specifically designed to play the recently introduced electrical recordings and were very popular in their day. They come up for sale quite often on Craigslist and eBay, and prices are very affordable.

When I had my Victor Consolette Orthophonic model -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/4-3.htm -- I used to play big-band era records all the time, using a soft tone needle. The sound quality was fantastic, even though the bass response was somewhat lacking, due to the small size of the horn. I still have many of those records and they play as well, now, as they did when I got them 25 years ago. (I'm still using my VV-4-40, because Santa pooped out on my Credenza. Guess he couldn't get it down the chimney. )

As noted, there are plenty of options available and choices to make. The important thing is to do as much homework as possible before you acquire your next phonograph.

DS

[beat_truck]

If you just want something to listen to your 78s on without damaging them, why not just buy a cheap record player that has 78 speed? I picked up a 70s Soundesign stereo with a BSR turntable, radio, 8 track deck and 2 decent speakers at Salvation Army for $7.99. All it needed was a quick lube job for the turntable. Plus new needles for it are only about $8 shipped on Ebay. I do realize that it sort of lacks the fun of using a wind up machine, though.

Josh

[RDGCrusader]

If you just want something to listen to your 78s on without damaging them, why not just buy a cheap record player that has 78 speed? I picked up a 70s Soundesign stereo with a BSR turntable, radio, 8 track deck and 2 decent speakers at Salvation Army for $7.99. All it needed was a quick lube job for the turntable. Plus new needles for it are only about $8 shipped on Ebay. I do realize that it sort of lacks the fun of using a wind up machine, though.

Josh

Yeah I know there are new machines out there that play them, but it just isn't the same as playing them on a good old acoustic. Its a shame that there aren't any good-quality reproduction gramophones made by a reputable company. Its odd because there's a company near me that makes replica music boxes and replica music box discs that work as well as the originals. Maybe its just too expensive to make a quality reproduction phonograph.

[brianu]

Yeah I know there are new machines out there that play them, but it just isn't the same as playing them on a good old acoustic. Its a shame that there aren't any good-quality reproduction gramophones made by a reputable company. Its odd because there's a company near me that makes replica music boxes and replica music box discs that work as well as the originals. Maybe its just too expensive to make a quality reproduction phonograph.

exactly, it likely would cost far more than someone would want to pay, and a good deal more than it would cost to just buy an original one, to reproduce a wind-up acoustic phonograph in a way that decently replicates the performance of an original... you can easily find an original victor talking machine, portable, table or floor model, for 100 to 300, if not less. is it that you have some strange aversion to a "used" one?

also, if the bulk of your discs are from the 30s, 40s or later, playing them on a newer or more modern machine definitely isn't the same as playing them an an earlier acoustic machine, because those discs were recorded in a way intended for replay on the newer, non-acoustic machines.

[New Owner]

Try hunting on Craigslist or in antique shops for an acoustic if you want one. You might stumble upon something rather nice for a low price.

[RDGCrusader]

"Is it that you have some strange aversion to a "used" one"

Oh no, not at all. I know there are plenty of original portables and tabletops out there, but I wanted to get an outside-horn model. However, I don't have an extra thousand dollars I could spend on an original, so I had to look for a gramophone in my price range, which consequently would be a reproduction. Although everybody says to stay away from the repros, I've seen videos of people playing 78s on them, and they "appear" to be decent. So I went ahead and bought myself one, and as I said in the first post of the thread it played fine for a day. And since I enjoyed using it, I was a little hesitant to give up on it. Now that I know its not worthwhile fixing, I'll look around for a portable or something.

[David Spanovich]

"Is it that you have some strange aversion to a "used" one"

Oh no, not at all. I know there are plenty of original portables and tabletops out there, but I wanted to get an outside-horn model. However, I don't have an extra thousand dollars I could spend on an original, so I had to look for a gramophone in my price range, which consequently would be a reproduction.

Hi Colin:

I started out in the hobby in Minnesota over 30 years ago, when I was a mere tot (20), and began by collecting cheap portables--everyone I could find. From there, I swapped two for one to get better quality models, and eventually worked my way up to a couple of cabinet models and about a dozen portables. Then, I moved cross-country to Washington DC, and sold or gave away everything and started fresh, acquiring a couple of cabinet style Victrolas, and a few portables. About five years later, and another cross-country move to the West Coast, I sold everything again, and landed in my new home with a couple of boxes of records, and nothing to play them with.

Within about six months, I acquired a single VV-2-55 portable, and a year later, a Consolette. It was at that time--circa 1988--that an out of town job-related acquaintance stopped over and noticed my machines and interest in antique phonographs. She said that she had one that she wanted to get rid of. It had been damaged when a former boyfriend of her's had thrown it against a wall, and the case had broken apart. She put it in the cellar where it languished for five years. The crank handle, in fact, had been partially chewed away by a rat. Not knowing what it was, other than the fact that it had an "outside horn," I agreed to take it--for free--as a fixer-upper. (She shipped it to me--her expense.)

After a about a $200 investment for motor repairs, etc., and a hell of a lot of gluing, French Polishing, and swearing, here's the final result:


Victor V


So, you never know what may come your way. Since you're just starting out in the hobby, spread the word among your friends and co-workers, etc. They may have something with your name on it sitting in their attics or cellars.

In the meantime, keep checking craigslist. I've seen a number of Columbia models over the years priced in $400-500 range. For whatever reason, they do not attract the following that Victor products do.

for instance -- http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/atq/2685105760.html

Columbia Disc Graphophone.JPG (31.53 KiB) Viewed 1163 times

Columbia Phonograph listed at $500 -- Miami Craigslist (Phone 954-790-1515 )

DS