Newbie Needs Help

[RDGCrusader1938]

Hey Guys,

I bought myself a Crapophone for Christmas (yes, I fell for the crapophone, didn't feel like paying $1000+ for a real one) and for Christmas day it played absolutely fine. But today I went to wind it up, and although the crank would turn, the turntable wouldn't move, even with the brake in the "off" position. So I opened it up to see what was going on in the motor. Doing so, I found that while I turned the crank, the upper parts of the motor would move, but the lower parts, the ones connected to the turntable, would not. I didn't try to open it up for fear of damaging it more.
What should I do? I don't want to send the whole thing back because the rest of it's perfectly fine, and when I look online to try and order a new motor I can't find one. Does anybody know what is wrong with it, and if so what can I do to get it working again?
Thanks,
Colin

[Phonofreak]

Hi Collin,
I'm not out to beat you up, but this is the reason that collectors stay away from crapophones. The motors are from tired portables and always need work. I'd suggest and save your money and get a Victrola VI. They are well made with strong double spring motors. For a small machine, they sound very good, better than the crapophone. Go to the Yankee Trader section and advertize for a Victrola VI.You'll be very pleased. Once you get experience with the Victrola, then save your money and get a good horned machine like a Victor II or III. With this bad economy, you'll probably get a good deal on it.
Good luck,
Harvey Kravitz

[Phonofreak]

Sorry Colin,
I misspelled your name.
Harvey Kravitz

[David Spanovich]

Hi Colin:

You might want to join this forum when you get a chance. For starters, when you post something, it will appear immediately, and you don't have to wait for approval by the moderator.

I agree with Harvey.

The thing to keep in mind about Crap-O-Phones is that they are basically made for display purposes, in spite of what the sellers may tell you. Oftentimes, the motors are incomplete or are cobbled together from parts taken from various junker machines.

If you feel tension building up in the spring when you wind it, then the mainspring, itself, is probably not broken--yet. But since it has been wound, you dare not take it apart without risking damage to the rest of the motor, or yourself.

For starters, try putting a few drops of oil onto as many of the gears as possible, including the governor.

There's a lubrication guide on this page -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/Repair.htm Though it shows a standard Victrola motor, the basic parts are the same for all spring motors.

As for finding a replacement motor, it may not be worth it. I don't know how much you paid for the Crap-O-Phone, but for what you'd spend for a good condition motor, you might be able to find a nice enclosed horn table top Victrola or other brand.

In addition to motor issues, Crap-O-Phones often have problems with the sound box or reproducer. The design of the sound box is very poor, and even one in good condition can damage records because of the way the needle-bar pivot is configured.

I think if I were in your position, I'd use the fact that the motor does not work as justification to send it back for a refund, and then shop around for something decent.

Sorry I can't be more optimistic.

DS

[Jerry B.]

Harvey's advice is spot on correct. Please consider your crap-o-phone part of a learning experience and move on in the hobby. We've all made mistakes. I hope you get involved and enjoy the Forum.
*
I have to say that I am offended when an experienced collector offers a crap-o-phone at a sale. I suppose it's done to make a quick dollar but it is wrong. The ultimate end result is a dissatisfied buyer.

[1923VictorFan]

"I'd suggest you save your money and get a Victrola VI. They are well made with strong double spring motors. For a small machine, they sound very good."

I'd have to agree 100% with Phonofreak. My first talking machine was an Edison Standard but my first disc machine is my 1923 Victor VV-VI that I bought back in 2006. I paid $70 for it on eBay plus another $25 for S/H. Three months ago I picked-up a super clean VV-IV from 1914. I paid $129 plus $16 S/H. I then invested another $25 and $35 to have the reproducers rebuilt. They both run & sound great but to be honest, the VV-VI sounds noticeably better. I have no plans to buy another machine or "up grade" because I'm more than satisfied with my VV-VI. That leaves me time and money to focus on collecting early Victor accoustic recordings.

You can't go wrong with a table-top Victrola. In fact a really nice Victrola will probably cost less than your Crap-o-Phone. It won't have the same "cool" look that external horn machines have but you'll have a real, quality, period talking machine. Speaking of which...send that Crao-o-Phone back while you still can! Then I suggest you spend a week or two to become acquainted with whats on eBay and what they sell for. Just save them in your "watch list" so that you can track them.

Best of Luck!
Erich

[1923VictorFan]

*
I have to say that I am offended when an experienced collector offers a crap-o-phone at a sale. I suppose it's done to make a quick dollar but it is wrong. The ultimate end result is a dissatisfied buyer.

I agree with JerryB. The least the seller could do is tag the machine as a replica. It's such a simple thing to do. On the other hand...buyer beware. Prospective buyers planning to spend hundreds of dollars should first spend some time to educate themselves a bit before handing over their cash.

[gramophoneshane]

If you can post a picture of the motor it could be helpful. Some crapophones use old motors salvaged from original portables, and other crapophones have brand new motors which are copies of an original Garrard motor, but are of much poorer quality.
Spare parts for original motors should be readily available from parts dealers & new motors can be replaced by an original, but the first step is to work out what motor your crapophone has.

[RDGCrusader]

Hi again,

Well, I've managed to join (I thought my activation had gone through at the time of my post, but I guess it hadn't). I'll try and upload a photograph of the motor as soon as I can.
I'll take you guy's advice look around for a portable or tabletop, or maybe even those electrics that are like a long chest that sits on the floor and you open up the lid on the top to get to the turntable (the name escapes me). As much as I am a sucker for exposed horn gramophones, I care more about the well-being of my grandmother's 78's.
As for the crapophone, I'll hold onto it and see if I can get a new motor. You never know what you'll find at flea markets and thrift shops, and I also have a friend who's very into buying and selling antique music boxes, phonographs, etc., on eBay. I'll tell him to keep an eye out for a motor. That might be all it needs, because the tracking arm is not really that heavy and poses no visible threat to the record. I personally think its one of the older repros from the 60s-70s that aren't as bad as the new ones.

[New Owner]

The reproducer is usually designed to play the acoustic and early electric records. I'm assuming most of your grandmother's 78s are of 1940s big bands and/or crooners, which were designed to play on phonographs with an electric pick up, not an acoustic phonograph. While acoustic phonographs (ones with horns and spring motors) were made up until the late 1950s, the acoustic sound box wasn't designed to handle the high fidelity electrical recordings of the '40s, and the material of the later records lacks the abrasives that wear down the steel needle instead of the record (which is why you should always change the needle after 1-2 plays). Usually, the best way to approximate the date of your records is to look at the label and look it up online (for example, Columbia records with a red label and a pair of notes next to a CBS and microphone date from 1939-1958, Victor records with a scroll design on the label date from 1926-1937, etc.), or look up the disc's catalog number (ie: 4033, 26007, 81328, etc.) in a discography. The last method only works for major labels (Victor has a huuuuuuuuuge one on USCB's website, and material for Columbia, Brunswick, Mercury, etc. is fairly common), but there are plenty of discographies for smaller labels. Looking up the songs is also a handy method (made even easier if the song was featured in a movie or play). A quick way to identify acoustic records or early electrics (at least for me) is to look on the outer rim of the record. If there is a lead-in groove to guide the needle into the record, you have an electric record, and if there is no lead in groove, you most likely have an acoustic or early electric.

If you really want an outside horn phonograph, sometimes you can get lucky and snag one for a few hundred less than the average, or you can buy an old fixer-upper (they still show up occasionally on eBay for $100-200) and bring it back to life. I'd personally recommend a Victor Orthophonic/Columbia Viva-Tonal/Brunswick Panatrope (all designed for electric records) for to get the best out of your records. They're a little large, but all are fairly common and thusly can be picked up for $100-500 online or at auction.