About to buy first gramophone and need advice. A fake?

[Sansenoi]

I forgot to add in my last post.... I will try to get pictures by Wednesday when I'm back in the town the antique store is in. I love a challenge.

I'm not above buying a worthless (collector wise) gromophone if it plays well but I would like to identify the parts first to see if getting replacement parts would be hard.

I also am starting to kind of like the idea that my first gromophone would be a restoration project if I can find out if it is a grafonola case with mostly grafonola parts. I'm still leaning towards it being a Cardinal but photos of them a nd their models are scarce.

For sure, with the feedback I've gotten so far it is a crap-o-nola no doubt, but would love to try and make something nice from it if I can work out a much lower price than $375.

[David Spanovich]

I'm still leaning towards it being a Cardinal but photos of them a nd their models are scarce.

There was a Cardinal phonograph profiled on this forum awhile back-- http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... w=previous

Some more photos of other models appear here -- http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... &view=next -- including one that DOES resemble a Grafonola:



HTH,
DS

[Guest]

That looks exactly like the case this gromophone is in, same plain style, same color!!!

I wonder if someone knows where I can find a picture of what that Cardinal model has under its hood. I wonder if the setup is the same as what I'm seeing. I think Cardinal was only in business from 1918 to 1922 or 25 if I recall correctly.

Wow, thanks for that Photo!!!

[Sansenoi]

That above photo looks exactly like what I'm looking at in the antique store. They could be identical. Same woodwork and color. Same kind of knobs on doors.

Anyone know of any photos of what this model has under its hood so I could better identify?

Thanks for that photo. I am greatful.

Any idea of value?

[Sansenoi]

What I'm starting to think is someone has sanded and refinished a cardinal case and now the logos are gone, with non original parts on the motor board it is being misidentified and sold as a columbia grafonola for $425. I din't know of this is an honest mistake or intentional but I will find out Wednesday when I go back.

Thanks everyone

[Sansenoi]

I decided to follow all of you folks kind advice about steering clear of the suspect grafonola and also, your advice to use craigslist instead of antique stores.

I know I said I would put up pictures of the "crap-o-nola" in question but instead of going back to the antique store I shopped craigslist instead over the past two days and below is a hint of what I bought this afternoon. From its serial # I can hope that it is a 1921 model and not 1922.

[Sansenoi]

I decided to follow all of you folks kind advice about steering clear of the suspect grafonola and also, your advice to use craigslist instead of antique stores.

I know I said I would put up pictures of the "crap-o-nola" in question but instead of going back to the antique store I shopped craigslist instead over the past two days and below is a hint of what I bought this afternoon. From its serial # I can hope that it is a 1921 model and not 1922.

[David Spanovich]

Congratulations on your first upright Victrola--and a real one, too!

From the manufacturer's plate, it looks like it's a VV-90. The thing to keep in mind about all (Victor) Victrolas of this period, is that they were quality-built and parts are readily available today. Once any restoration work that may need to be done is completed, such as cleaning and re-greasing the motor, rebuilding the sound box with fresh gaskets, etc., it should provide you with years of trouble-free enjoyment.

Along this line, and since you're new to the hobby, you might want to invest in "The Compleat Talking Machine," by Eric Reiss. (That's the way "complete" is spelled in the title, by the way.) The book, which is full of illustrations, provides invaluable information concerning any repairs you're likely to make, as well as simple maintenance such as periodic cleaning and re-greasing of motor parts. It's available through most well stocked book sellers for about $20.

If you have a chance, post a few more photos.

DS

[Sansenoi]

the inside of its cabinet looks really nice and glossy. I can see my reflection in it. Tere are two bad parts to this story.

The outside lid and front upper side have some light colored water stains and the portion of the crank handle that remains outside the cabinet has some rust. I worried about interior water but the motor looks mint! There is not vernier chipping or splitting but in some places it is loosening like at the bottom of the cabinet edge. The owner said he made sure to store it in the...wait for it... unheated garage with plastic over it. Since the wather damage is only on the huud and upper side I conclude that water vapor rose off the floor and condensed on the upper inside of the plastic at some point in the past.

it runs smoothly and all the gears are stright and they have all their teeth well defined. The second problem is that when winding after a while I hear, "kathunk, kathunk--kathunk, kathunk".

I assume it was moved in the wound down state and the springs have slipped their arbor or retaining rivot since there is no scraping or rattle of broken spring metal sound to go along with it.

I've worked on mechanical clocks for years and that is a problem there also. This is a two spring, single barrel design with a "17" stamped on it so I assume both springs are 17 feet in length.

It will run but slowly comes to a stop after playing for just a while while.

I also need to fix the knob on the slow/fast indicator. The washer/nut that retains the adjustment screw from the back side of the motor board is spinning because it has come loose due to overtightening the screw in the down position.

It has a victrola #2 reproducer on it and the base of the tone arm that attaches to the horn is black steel but the arm itself is not magnetic but still very shiny silver in color. There is no rust inside whatsoever.

Hopefully I got a good deal, the previous owner also threw in about a dozen records, half of the are the appropriate shellac 78's and oll of them are foreign opera and orchestral ditties.

I know I'm only dreaming, since I don't plan to sell my first victrola anytime soon but, I looked up the two VV-90's now selling on e-bay when I searched for " victrola vv 90" and one was asking for well over $1,000 dollars and the other over $600. If that is anywhere near their actual value then I got a great deal. In actuality, I think I will be luck to break even for my $150.

Wish me luck, I've already wound down the barrel tonight for a disassembly of the motor tomorrow. This motor looks mint but I'm stilll weary of finding at least one broken spring.

[David Spanovich]

The second problem is that when winding after a while I hear, "kathunk, kathunk--kathunk, kathunk".

That's very typical of a spring that needs a good cleaning and re-lubrication. There are two springs--one on each side of the barrel. I'm not sure of the length, but if either needs replacement, you can obtain a new one from a number of suppliers.

There have been a number of posts on this forum about motor repair, so to start, you may want to familiarize yourself with some of the issues --

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=site% ... 24&bih=625

Also, you may want to view this six part video series before starting any repairs --


Victor Two Spring Motor Rebuild --

Part 1 -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R9i7zp- ... re=related
Part 2 -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEkUpM-y ... re=related
Part 3 -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZdI0ttr ... re=related
Part 4 -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epE-r9Dd ... re=related
Part 5 -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy8_NRP7 ... re=related
Part 6 -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af0n5cYl ... re=related

HTH,
DS