About to buy first gramophone and need advice. A fake?

[Sansenoi]

I found what is marked as a columbia grafonola upright cabinet model in my local antique store. They are asking $425 US for it but immediately said they'd take $375 without me asking them to drop the price. I think it may not be wholly a Columbia grafonola.
Please, someone advise me. It will be my first gramophone purchase of any kind although I have done my homework.

It is marked on its tag as working but the crank and needle is kept in the front desk of the store. I didn't want to go playing around with it until I had some questions answered by someone who knows gramophones and phonographs.

If it works, I am willing to buy it because I want a phonograph. What I am not willing to do is pay $425 dollars for a columbia grafonola and have it have no collector value at all because it is cobbeled together from God knows what.

From my below description, could someone please advise me what I might offer as a counter price if it is not a grafonola but yet works well enough to play disks. I have worked on clocks and pocketwatches for years and have no problem restoring minor problems. IT would give me something to do.

Here is what makes me think it is not as tagged at the store.

1. I did not see columbia or grafonola marked anywhere on it although it looks like a grafonola cabinet it may be a Cardinal phonograph company cabinet. I'm close to Zanesville, Ohio where cardinal produced their simmilar looking models.

2. the side where the crank goes into the cabinet is set very low on the side as compared to other grafonola pictures I have seen.

3. The place where the crank enteres the cabinet does not have a metal fitting around the hole but a light tan plastic looking washer about 2" in diameter held in place by several screws.

4. All the pictures I have seen of grafonolas with cabinets of this type have a wooden motor board on which the platter sits, this one I am looking at has a raised black anodized metal motorboard with no plates indicating speed or brake. Just has two seperate metal arms that kind of make a "U" shape coming out from under the front right side of the disk platter. They seem to be spring loaded.I swear it looks like a modern aluminum type platter board.

5. The metal motor board seems to be larger than it should be and I think it may be covering up one or more needle cups on the wooden back left portion of the cabinet interior.

6. the wooden hood over the unit does not have a metal slide attaching the hood to the cabinet assembly on the left hand side like I have seen on grafonolas that look like this cabinet.

7. they said it has been in the store for over 2 years with no offers.

This is the kind of cabinet that has several vertical horn slats in the upper front of the cabinet with a two door storage cabinet below the horn output in front.
The case is light colored wood and very plain with not scrollwork and wooden knobs.

[estott]

Stay far away from this unless you can get it for free.

[Sansenoi]

Wow, that bad huh? Does anyone know what I might be looking at regarding the actual motor from the description of the motor board and lever locations below the platter. The platter is a gramophone platter with green felt. I know that's not much to go on, but if it has a working motor perhaps I could find the correct cabinet/case for it and a matching tone arm and soundbox. I love a mystery, just not a $425 mystery. lol

[estott]

Sorry, a picture would make things much clearer.

$425 is far to expensive for an ordinary Grafonola, even in good shape. The one you describe could be completely worthless- even a good motor isn't worth much more than $30.00 tops.

[Sansenoi]

That's what I thought. I knew they were asking way more than it was worth when the immediately dropped the price $50 without asking.

It did appear to have a good soundbox and tone arm; not the potmetal spoken about on the grafonola but I am far from an expert.

This shop works on consignment so I might have them shoot a $50 dollar counter to the seller along with all the problems it has being advertised as a genuine Columbia grafonola.

The thing that pesters me as to the raised metal motor board and the low crank hole location is that there is no original hole in the the wood, as if the motor was made to fit the cabinet and motor board dimensions. Although, I guess they could shimmy some spacers under the motorboard and motor to some extent. I guess that is what has me intrigued.

I will try to get some pictures this coming week. I'm sure it's not going anywhere.

I just don't know the etiquett on buying a suspect gramophone. Would it be ok, if they get it running in front of me playing a disk if I were to ask to lift the motor board out to see the motor? For all I know it's made in India or China. If one thing is suspect, it is all suspect.

If nothing else, I could sell it for parts.

[New Owner]

Well, Indian/Chinese reproductions always have a brass external horn with a cheap HMV sticker on the front. What you're gonna buy is indeed a real machine. It may be pieced together from various parts, but it is likely not a Bombay fake. Just be wary for machines that resemble these:

[David Spanovich]

Frankly, I'd pass on it. Since this is your first victrola, you'll want to get something you'll enjoy having.

I'm wondering.... have you checked out your local craigslist listings? Here are a few searches I've bookmarked for you:


http://zanesville.craigslist.org/search ... k=&maxAsk=

http://zanesville.craigslist.org/search ... k=&maxAsk=

http://zanesville.craigslist.org/search ... k=&maxAsk=

http://zanesville.craigslist.org/search ... k=&maxAsk=

As you'll note, I did four "key word" searches of the For Sale sections' main page, which searches all of the sub-categories. There are individual searches for Victrola, Phonograph, Grafonola and "Record Player."

I do this because there's no rhyme or reason to the way sellers list their items on craigslist.

In any event, I spotted a few nice looking ones such as this Sonora Phonograph -- http://columbus.craigslist.org/atq/2838468903.html -- that seem to be complete, and for less than the asking price of the "franken-grafonola" you're considering.

HTH,
DS

[Sansenoi]

Thanks for all the feedback. I will stay away from the cobbeled together "crap-o-nola" grafonola in the antique store until and if I ever need a variety of company parts.

I have looked in antique stores within 15 miles and this is the only crank gramophone I could find. I was trying to avoid expensive shipping.

When I said I was near Zanesville, Ohio I meant within about 100 miles.

I'm actually in West Virgina, right across the border. I looked on my local craigslist for Huntington and Charleston but nothing good.

Back in the day we got a lot of goods from Ohio. Now all we get from Ohio is crappy "Amish Made" electric fireplaces where the Finely dressed Amish men, in their TV appearance, are using nailguns and electric routers to put together a fireplqace mantle grande enough to hide the finest in Japanese fake fireplace circuitry.

[gramophoneshane]

Just curious, but the raised metal motor board doesn't look anything like this does it?
I'm just wondering if it might be a British made Grafonola. Garrard made all of UK Columbias motors, and they often have a bedplate similar to the one pictured below.
Even though it sounds like the machine is way over priced and not worth buying, it'd still be interesting to see some pictures so it could be properly identified.

[Sansenoi]

no, the raised metal motor board is square with rounded corders with sunken screws in each corner.

If I recall correctly, it has two silver levers that kind of make a "U" shape that stick out from under the disk platter above the motor board at about the 4 and 5 o'clock position. They appear to be spring loaded.

There is no writing or engraving on the motor board i.e.- no slow/fast indicator or brake. It appears to be black anodized thick steel or aluminum.

If I recall, it's dimensions were roughly 14 or 15 X 14 or 15 inches.