Victrola VV-IX - restoration

[muffinass]

Ok, little update here...I took apart the motor as per chilldude's YouTube video.

Needless to say, a lot of WD40 had to be employed and every piece was darkened with dried grease.

Took off the tone-arm as well, and lo-behold, there were 8, not 5 ball bearings running along the washer (see pictures).

Can anyone tell me if this was someone's wrong-doing or do the extra 3 bearings simply ride freely?

The other question is about the tone-arm bracket and whether the metal shaft can be removed and cleaned (I did see there's a pin that's holding it in place, but have no clue how to remove it).

Also, was there supposed to be a felt or rubber washer between the tone-arm bracket and the cabinet-board? As you can see from the pictures there was none on mine.

On a depressing note, that picture also shows the immaculate finish that the VV-IX once had...
If I do go ahead and strip the entire thing, how can I remove the ID plates and be able to put them back on? Aren't they held in by rivets?

Tomorrow is dedicated to cleaning the motor and all the parts...spring barrel included. Pictures to follow.

[muffinass]

Sorry, again with the question about polishing - what should I use on the tone-arm, break gauge and speed/break switch?

[martinola]

Belated congratulations on your new project!
Getting back to the finish; I'm sure you've probably realized that the original was indeed (as Jerry said) Red Mahogany. The nasty blobby bits where the new meets the old are leftovers from the stripping/recoating process. In order to match the new to the old, I've adopted the trick the auto body paint people use: try to make color joins at natural corners, lines, edges. You'll still want to be close, but having the color change at a "line" acts as a "stop sign" for the eye. On an Edison C-19 restoration I did, I used that to help hide an area that required major surgery.
Before:

C_19_inside_hinge2_small.jpg (188.83 KiB) Viewed 3735 times

After:

C_19_Turntable_after_small.jpg (207.29 KiB) Viewed 3735 times

The back area, top rim and all of the outside are new finish while the inside of the lid and the rest of the interior are original color (with some reamalgamation and a few top coats of clear schellac). It really just requires some extra time and fussing (but that's the fun of restoration ).

- Martin

[1926CredenzaOwner]

Took off the tone-arm as well, and lo-behold, there were 8, not 5 ball bearings running along the washer (see pictures).

Can anyone tell me if this was someone's wrong-doing or do the extra 3 bearings simply ride freely?

Two different tone arms, two different designs. Someone who has experience with the '20s Victor fat tone arm is going to have to field that question! I've never taken mine apart.

Also, was there supposed to be a felt or rubber washer between the tone-arm bracket and the cabinet-board? As you can see from the pictures there was none on mine.

I think that's something unique to the Orthophonic machines, as they must have air tight seals from reproducer to horn opening to produce the bass they are so famous for.

14 years separate the designs of the Credenza and this IX. (1911-1925)
Remember my Ford analogy?
Think of it this way: The IX is the 'Model T' of the Victor line. The Credenza was Victor's 'Model A.'
While you can intermix parts from one Model T to another, You can't often take parts from a Model T and expect them to be the same as the same part you're trying to replace on a Model A.

When it comes to things like speed indicator parts, needle cups, the knobs that lift the motor board, and various motor parts... they are mostly interchangeable across the board.

[alang]

Took off the tone-arm as well, and lo-behold, there were 8, not 5 ball bearings running along the washer (see pictures).

Can anyone tell me if this was someone's wrong-doing or do the extra 3 bearings simply ride freely?

The other question is about the tone-arm bracket and whether the metal shaft can be removed and cleaned (I did see there's a pin that's holding it in place, but have no clue how to remove it).

Also, was there supposed to be a felt or rubber washer between the tone-arm bracket and the cabinet-board? As you can see from the pictures there was none on mine.

On a depressing note, that picture also shows the immaculate finish that the VV-IX once had...
If I do go ahead and strip the entire thing, how can I remove the ID plates and be able to put them back on? Aren't they held in by rivets?

Tomorrow is dedicated to cleaning the motor and all the parts...spring barrel included. Pictures to follow.

I have the exact same machine from 1918 with the fat tonearm, but with Exhibition reproducer. It plays very well and has plenty of sound volume for normal size rooms.

To answer your questions, no, as you can see from the cut-outs in the ring there should be only five ball bearings. Not sure why someone added three more?

I don't think that you can remove the tonearm shaft from the back bracket.

There is no felt or rubber washer under the tonearm bracket

The ID plates are held by tiny nails. You can try to loosen them carefully with a knife and then remove them with small pliers.

I use GoJo or GooP for cleaning metal parts as well.

Good Luck!
Andreas

[muffinass]

Andreas, thank you so much for the reply!

I don't think that you can remove the tonearm shaft from the back bracket.

Can/should the underside of the shaft - that enters the horn - be cleaned? There's a reddish greasy residue that is covering it (sort-of visible in the pictures).

The ID plates are held by tiny nails. You can try to loosen them carefully with a knife and then remove them with small pliers.

I use GoJo or GooP for cleaning metal parts as well.

Good Luck!
Andreas

Should I be using 0000 steel wool to scrub the nickel pieces?
Can the ID plates be scrubbed with the same substance? (I'm afraid of scrubbing off the black paint)

[alang]

Well, since the underside of the shaft is invisible when installed I would not spend too much time on it. I would clean it with the rest of the bracket, but I would not polish that part.

Gojo and GooP are hand cleaners that you can typically get in the automotive departments. Make sure you use the pumice-free or cream version. It safe for hands and fabric, so it should not negatively affect metal or nickel plating. If very dirty or pitted I use 0000 steel wool with it on plated stuff, but of course always be careful not to remove the plating. Be also very careful with ID plates. The Gojo or similar cleaner stuff should not hurt, but with steel wool you can easily remove the black paint.

In general when restoring phonographs it is very important to go slowly. You can always do a second round of cleaning, scrubbing or polishing, but once you remove too much of the original finish you can never bring it back.

Good luck!
Andreas

[muffinass]

Whew...took half a day and some short-lived panic attacks (nearly lost the spindle ball-bearing and then the spring for the speed selector). At the end though, one has to sit and marvel at the simplicity of the technology involved...especially considering it still withstands the test of time. (sigh )

Obviously the spring barrel was dry and caked with tarred grease.

However, the cleaning part was a bit unnerving, as I noticed the "oil degreaser" (Canadian Tire-bought from the automotive section) I picked left some weird corrosion on the gears (see pictures). Is this damaging to the gears? Or is the residue a reaction from the possibly-not-kosher compound?

The springs were easy to take out and put back in (my friend helped holding the barrel, have to admit)...the difficult part was capping it back shut with the metal ring. I had to tap down the top of the barrel a bit...but it worked in the end.

Now for the final truth...According to chilldude's YouTube videos, he places the finished motor on a temp board to fully wind and release (then repeat).

- do I have to also run it on a different set-up or can I simply put it back in the cabinet, connect everything and test the springs that way?

- what can I use to replace the worn leather on the speed regulator (see pictures)?

In the interim I'll clean the tone-arm and see about the cabinet (buying howard's restore-a-finish and lemon oil).

[Brad]

A degreaser is typically just a soap so I would not think that it would be the cause of what you see. It shouldn't have any negative effect on the gears.

To be safe, i wouldn't use it on any visible metal.

Looks like you are making great progress and having lots of fun on the way.

[FloridaClay]

Muffin, congrats on the great progress on the motor.

Going back to the case, finding the finish on a machine to look quite different on the inside of the lid, around the turntable, and on the inside of the doors, etc. is the norm. Shellac finishes tend to deteriorate over time with exposure to heat, light, and moisture. The inside is protected and survives far better. And like yours a lot of time when the exterior finish has been stripped they don't strip the inside. A little light cleaning of the inside with some Kotton Klenser or GoJo will likely reveal to you very close to what the finish was like when the machine was new.

Oh, and reproducers are supposed to come off easily with a turn to unlock it and a pull. They are about as easy to change out as a light bulb.

Clay