Victrola VV-IX - restoration

[muffinass]

Given that I'll be picking up a Credenza this week, things will soon pile up here and I'd rather start some projects I never got around to.

I'll preamble all of this by saying that I have absolutely no experience working on anything mechanical (save for the ability to take apart and piece back together successfully). Hence the first project will be a Victor VV-IX table top that I bought a couple of months back.

The motor was rumbling loudly when playing, and the speed wasn't right - the same record on my HMV 101 played perfectly (although Formby's pitch can easily deceive you).

Beyond the motor needing to be regreased and lubed, the nickel parts are dirty, slightly rusted and in need of a good scrubbing.

The worst aspect of the machine, and for me dumbfounding, is that it was party refinished at one point.
I took pictures for reference - it looks like the insides were coated with a different finish, in an attempt to simulate a different type of wood.

I'll leave the cabinet retouching for later, but can somebody tell me what type of wood this model was built with? Also, is it better in this case to match the outside to the inside, or strip the inside to match the outside? ... Or just leave it as is?

Any observations about the unit and help are greatly appreciated - I'll be using the YouTube video tutorial on restoring a Victor motor.

One last question about that, actually: in the video, kerosene is used to fully clean all the parts, but that might be too big of an issue...where to get it, where to dispose of it... So, is there something else I can use to clean all the oil, grease and grime from the motor?

Thanks in advance!

[muffinass]

...and the rest of the pictures...

OH, forgot to mention - the speed indicator doesn't work and as you can see the plastic cover is missing from it.

[Henry]

Looks to me, from the pix, that the insides are the original (mahagony?) finish, and the outside is---well, stripped, as you see. If I were you, I'd try to stain the exterior to match the interior, using a suitable modern product, rather than refinish the interior, because you'd have to work around the decal and the job would be all too obvious. I don't think you'd be happy with the results.

To remove grease, I use mineral spirits (paint thinner). Naphtha (Coleman fuel) also works, but the mineral spirits is a whole lot cheaper. I wouldn't use kerosene for anything except lanterns!
Just be careful not to get any of these products on the visible wood of the cabinet!

The cover for the speed indicator can be replaced with clear styrene (try hobby shop), but styrene scratches easily. The advantage is that it's cheap, and easy to work with as far as cutting and shaping are concerned.

BTW, your IX is a late model with fat tone arm and no. 2 sound box. The earlier ones had the smaller-diameter arm and Exhibition sound box.

[Jerry B.]

It is really difficult to refinish part of a mahogany cabinet to match the original dark mahogany. I always hope for a first refinishing experience to be successful and oak is really much easier than mahogany. But you have mahogany so if you start refinishing, I would suggest:

Completely disassemble the machine. That means to remove all the metal parts from the wooden pieces. Take the doors off and remove the hinges. Remove the lid and piano hinge. Remove the needle tray. Remove the ID tag from the cabinet by using a thin putty knife or pocket knife. Remove the screws and slide the horn out through the opening in front. Disassemble until you have nothing but wooden pieces.

Buy some good paint stripper, rubber gloves, and 00 to 0000 steel wool. I would suggest stripping one piece at a time. If you choose to do only the outside, it is somewhat difficult to find a line to stop the stripper. If you decide the strip the inside of the lid, very nice decals are available from Gregg Cline. I use stripper and steel wool until the original finish is gone. I do not use sand paper. Sand paper removes too much of the original color and you have a tendency to sand too much on the high or curved spots.

Mahogany should have a piano finish and you accomplish this by filling the grain before your finish coat is applied. Take a look at the inside of the doors on your Victrola. They are smooth and the light bounces off the finish like glass. That's a piano finish and your ultimate refinishing goal.

Jerry Blais

[1926CredenzaOwner]

BTW, your IX is a late model with fat tone arm and no. 2 sound box. The earlier ones had the smaller-diameter arm and Exhibition sound box.

This one is a 1919 No.IX, and should have an Exhibition sound box, and green turntable felt. Only late '24 through '26 models would have had orange felt.
(Don't worry. People would often upgrade these machines to stay current.)

...in the video, kerosene is used to fully clean all the parts, but that might be too big of an issue...where to get it, where to dispose of it... So, is there something else I can use to clean all the oil, grease and grime from the motor?

I used gasoline when I cleaned all the parts to my motor. The main goal is to just get all that old grease off.

The speed indicator doesn't work and as you can see the plastic cover is missing from it.

I can't tell you what's wrong with the speed indicator without looking at those parts. Could be anything. I don't think the speed adjustment screw should be screwed in all the way like that. As for the plastic window... eBay should become your new best friend! Also, check out APSCO. Here's the link to their website: http://www.antiquephono.com/

Just for future reference, here's some folks you might want to familiarize yourself with-

George Vollema: http://www.victroladoctor.com/
Walt Sommers: http://www.victrolaguy.com/

In my dealings with them, I have found both to be very helpful and good at what they do. They are both located in the Northern US. I don't know of any Canadian repairmen though... sorry.

[muffinass]

I was going to remove everything anyway, with the intent to clean, remove rust and polish all the metal pieces.

Of course, the ultimate goal being to fix the spring.

About the stripping/re-finishing... Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the pictures of the doors indicate that somebody painted a different varnish onto the victrola? It's also visible on the piano hinges for the lid - there's dried dark-mahogany stain still on them.

Hence my initial thought that the previous owner(s) stripped the unit and chose to apply a different stain to it.

I know the reproducer isn't original (it comes off very easily, actually) but I thought the felt on the turntable was appropriate for the year.

In any case, I'll start dismantilng the machine and take it from there.
Is there anything I should 'watch out' for while taking it apart? Again, pardon my naive questions but I'm a total amateur at this and while I do want to learn 'as-I-go', any advice is welcomed.

Jerry, when it comes to refinishing, I am even further removed from the skills or aesthetic eye required for it... Would you recommend any type of stain that could easily match the inside? This, of course, being the hopeful case that I will meticulously 'follow the lines' and try to blend the two finishes.

[muffinass]

Slipped my mind earlier, but I have one more question: what should I use to a) remove the rust of screws and other metal pieces b) polish the nickel to a shine?

[1926CredenzaOwner]

I know the reproducer isn't original (it comes off very easily, actually) but I thought the felt on the turntable was appropriate for the year.

Nope. When Victor switched the color of the felt to orange on the Orthophonics, all the other makes they produced started using the orange felt as well. However, yours was made well before that, so it should have green felt.

The #2 actually did come with the VV-IX starting in 1921.

http://www.victor-victrola.com/IX.htm

[muffinass]

I know the reproducer isn't original (it comes off very easily, actually) but I thought the felt on the turntable was appropriate for the year.

Nope. When Victor switched the color of the felt to orange on the Orthophonics, all the other makes they produced started using the orange felt as well.

The #2 actually did come with the VV-IX starting in 1921.

http://www.victor-victrola.com/IX.htm

Aha...so does this mean the machine was pieced together? Or...'upgraded'?

Speaking of, how do the Exhibition and No.2 reproducers compare?

[1926CredenzaOwner]

I've seen a lot of machines in the wild that should have the Exhibition, but have a #2. It was a popular upgrade. Even mine (a 1920 model) had a #2 when I bought it. I did buy an Exhibition just to set things right.

It does seem that your turntable is from another machine, as it is devoid of any plating at all. It might have been gold plated at one time, and someone may have removed it to make it 'match' the rest of the machine.

Looking at it closer, that's not even the right turntable. It's from an Orthophonic machine. Here's the right one on my IX:


Notice that there's no rim on the one in my picture.
Everything else looks right to me on your machine.

As to the comparison of the two sound boxes? People have different opinions on that. I like them both, myself. The #2 is good for large ensemble classical works and grand opera, and the Exhibition is good for the dance and jazz discs. IMHO, anyway.