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whoopinola wrote:This ID tag is off of a VV-210..It's half hid under the turn table

Nice plate (HMV). I have not seen one like that. However, I have to stress that internal horn machine's are not my strong suit.I have a 17 as a daily player only. Your machine has a later (correct) aluminum plate. My Victor mahogany V also has this type of plate and dates from approx. 1919. So, is there a US model 210 with the same number??.

To add to the mix......here are the plates on one of my Victor IV's. As you can see there is no "C" and the number is almost 42,000. In LFD the "total" production number is 33,055. Even if you leave a little room for error.....still almost 10,000 higher.

Here's 2 more , a VV-240 , and a VV-215...The previous VV-210 Id tag has a 1922 date , and model 210 : the VV-240 has a Berliner Gramophone tag : the VV-215 has ony HMV Montreal...hmmmmmm

whoopinola wrote:Here's 2 more , a VV-240 , and a VV-215...The previous VV-210 Id tag has a 1922 date , and model 210 : the VV-240 has a Berliner Gramophone tag : the VV-215 has ony HMV Montreal...hmmmmmm

Interesting. However,you only posted one machine's tag...twice like a stereoscope... .
To play devils advocate for a moment and just staying with the Victor IV numbers. Knowing the population of Canada at that time compared to the US. I find it very hard to believe that Berliner sold more Victor IV's in Canada than Johnson did in all the US. Could it be possible??. Was that model more popular up here by over 10,000 units???. Maybe I need to look at my other model's numbers??.

This is interesting to see and so far, it's helping my theory. I'd be willing to wager a little on the fact that these later 200 series machines for example were assembled, at least, in Montreal. You'll notice no "distributed by" on the tags. This makes perfect sense and it also backs up the larger factory / buildings by 1921, no?

I still think all serial numbers were intermixed until the "C" prefix came along.

I also think the 33,000 + production number is merely an error, there are quite a few errors / discrepencies that I've noticed (some very obvious) in both LFTD and the Victor Data Book. I'm not home to check the data book now, but I'd be curious what that says production numbers for a Vic IV were.

Sean

As a former Customs Inspector , my guess is that every Victor imported into Canada was imported as parts...A completely assembled machine probably had a higher rate of duty...The parts would draw a lesser rate...and parts used in the manufacture of gramophones would have most duty remitted.....Some machines would be imported nearly complete and only require minor re-assembly...others would be constructed of parts made in Canada and the US...My guess is that only certain models , the best sellers . were made in Canada. These would be manufactured using parts made in Canada and the US. Other models ,those with a smaller volume of sales , would be imported as partially assembled "kits" , that would be classified as "parts" for Custom's purposes. There has always been a debate as to how much assembly is required to rate a "Made in Canada"???...and at what point is a gramophone a gramophone and not "parts" of a gramophone???.....It's a question still debated today