Question about XVI (XV)

[Mr Grumpy]

Hey all,

I was going through the local classifieds and came across what I believe is a VV-XVI, even though the
seller listed it as a VV-XV. It appears to be the earlier type just after the switch from the 'L' door (based on what I've read on victor-victrola)

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell ... Z464051575

My question is, shouldn't it have a second key hole to lock the record storage area?

Other Question - I'm planning on going to Union this year, should I hold out on my XVI purchase
until I get there?? (I've never been before)

Victor VV-XV.jpg (34 KiB) Viewed 1435 times

[fran604g]

Hey Mr. Grumpy! Good to see you here. I just bought one exactly the same as that one and the cabinet doesn't lock, just the top. From what I've been told about mine, it is a very early Victrola just after the L-door. Mine is SN 63448 E. The speed control on mine is 180 degrees from the later models, just like this one, also. For reference, I paid $250 for mine 3 weeks ago off of CL. I don't have a clue to the actual value, however.

[OrthoSean]

I think $550 is (quite) a bit high. A few observations, the key escutcheon appears to be missing along with the casters. It also has the wrong reproducer on it, yet the correct box for the Exhibition is there. Odd. One plus, it has most of the correct record albums, which are not easy to find in good shape these days.

As for finding an XVI at Union, you probably won't see many unless they're L-doors or unusual finish ones, like Circassian Walnut which will be priced rather high, but I guess you never know. I can't recall ever having seen a "regular" XVI at Union, though.

Sean

[Retrograde]

There is no guarantee that a 16 will show up at the show. It's hit and miss on types of machines, price and quality. It's not like a
Canadian Tire store where you can walk in and find anything you want.

The machine you posted looks real nice to me. and it comes with albums & records to boot.

[gramophone78]

Lets not forget that this 16 is also a Canadian (Berliner) version and will be different to the US counter part.

[OrthoSean]

Could you point out the differences? I have this same style XVI and it doesn't appear to be any different than the one FS in the listing above, aside from the tacked on Berliner tag below the Victor one.

Sean

[gramophone78]

Could you point out the differences? I have this same style XVI and it doesn't appear to be any different than the one FS in the listing above, aside from the tacked on Berliner tag below the Victor one.

Sean

Yes, as discussed before by others like myself and Jerry....the tone arms are constructed differently and the bracket has a different decoration than the US made models. It is probably cast different also. That said, you may not notice these subtle differences unless you had one of each together to compare. If the US made model has a second lock on the lower cabinet....it would not surprise me that the Canadian made model does not. Berliner was all about making money and therefore cutting costs.

Here is a great example that is very subtle. On US made Vic. 3-6 you will notice the tone arm set screw is on the left side (facing the front)of the tone arm heel. On the Canadian made Vic. 3-6 the same set screw is on the back of the arms heel. Again, a slight difference. The Canadian horn elbow "WILL NOT FIT" on a US made machine. It is just a little too big in diameter. Yet in a pic....they look exactly the same.

[OrthoSean]

It was discussed by me as well

This style XVI in the US had the identical cabinet, no record storage area lock either. The tonearm and back bracket could be different, but it's hard to tell by the seller's photo. I'm pretty sure the cabinets used by Berliner for models like this were imported from Camden as was most of the hardware. I'm only going by what I've seen, though.

A side note about these first non L-door XVIs, I've seen more of these with the casters missing than not. Mine had them, but they had been removed and stuck inside the cabinet. I've always thought that the weight of one of these with a full cabinet of records is likely much more than that of an L-door and I've also seen quite a few of these where one of the back legs would either crack or break. I don't roll mine around for this exact reason.

Sean

[OrthoSean]

Here's a pic of mine, just for reference:

[gramophone78]

It was discussed by me as well

This style XVI in the US had the identical cabinet, no record storage area lock either. The tonearm and back bracket could be different, but it's hard to tell by the seller's photo. I'm pretty sure the cabinets used by Berliner for models like this were imported from Camden as was most of the hardware. I'm only going by what I've seen, though.

A side note about these first non L-door XVIs, I've seen more of these with the casters missing than not. Mine had them, but they had been removed and stuck inside the cabinet. I've always thought that the weight of one of these with a full cabinet of records is likely much more than that of an L-door and I've also seen quite a few of these where one of the back legs would either crack or break. I don't roll mine around for this exact reason.

Sean

Here is Berliner's factory in 1921. Clearly he was doing more than importing.... . I will pour over my books again to see if I can find anything regarding Berliner importing cabinets into Canada. This also raises the issue of the Victrola 13. As we all know it was "made" for the Canadian market "only". So, clearly there had to be some importing done. The question is when??. I do know that Victor gained control of Berliner's operation later and prior to RCA coming into the picture. I will post what I find.
I also know that during Berliner's first year of operation in Montreal (1900). He had Johnson ship all motors and metal parts up. However, even then....all the wood parts were made in Montreal. Within that first year....all parts...wood & metal were made in Canada.
Did Berliner make his parts here as a "cost" saving issue or did he make "his" parts different in order to stop cross boarder shopping???. Remember, he did this with his records for that very reason. It makes you wonder. Myself....I think he did it for both reasons.... .