Frozen shaft in model E cylinder machine

[bangster]

The mandrel came off with very little banging. The visegrips turn the shaft (takes some effort.

However, when the mandrel end of the shaft turns, the pulley end doesn't. At least, the part between the pulley and the boss doesn't. What the Hey?

I'll take your advice on replacing the feed screw. Let me make clear: on the info plate, the model originally stamped was D. The D has been scratched out and E stamped next to it. What model do I have here?

[FellowCollector]

The feedscrew revolves independently. As mentioned in my instructions, you need to remove all the screws that attach anything to the shaft and feedscrew. Once you have everything removed / loosened to the left of the seized bearing you can begin to pull and twist the shaft and each part will be able to be removed as you continue pulling and twisting the shaft to the right. Since you've not done this before, I suggest you take some pictures of how things look BEFORE removing all the pieces so that you can refer to the pictures after the shaft is removed. Again, the feedscrew revolves around the shaft. You'll understand how the parts function once you remove the shaft.

You have a Home model E onto which the Edison factory applied a leftover model D ID plate which was intentionally bastardized. Very little was wasted at the Edison factory if it was usable and I'm sure the Company presumed that the customer could care less about the info on the ID plate.

[bangster]

Thanks Doug…

In my clock persona, I'm well aware of the need for photos, and often emphasize it off in that domain. I've been taking pics here.

But what I'm talking about hasn't to do with the feed screw. It has to do with the main shaft in question. There is a visible ¼" of some shaft behind the pulley --that is, to the left of the pulley. I have believed that it's of a piece with the shaft that drives the mandrel. So when my visegrips turn the shaft that was inside the mandrel, I would expect the visible shaft behind the pulley to turn as well. He don't.

Either the shaft is broken somewhere inside the feed screw, or the shaft isn't what I had thought. Has some other structure, with a joint in it.

Please, please advise.

bangster

[Lucius1958]

Thanks Doug…

In my clock persona, I'm well aware of the need for photos, and often emphasize it off in that domain. I've been taking pics here.

But what I'm talking about hasn't to do with the feed screw. It has to do with the main shaft in question. There is a visible ¼" of some shaft behind the pulley --that is, to the left of the pulley. I have believed that it's of a piece with the shaft that drives the mandrel. So when my visegrips turn the shaft that was inside the mandrel, I would expect the visible shaft behind the pulley to turn as well. He don't.

Either the shaft is broken somewhere inside the feed screw, or the shaft isn't what I had thought. Has some other structure, with a joint in it.

Please, please advise.


bangster

Do you have the shaft out yet? If it were broken, you would see a broken end on the shaft.

I don't have any model D machines: but on my model A, the piece protruding from the stanchion to the left of the pulley is the end bearing, not the shaft itself. You should be able to remove it by taking out the set screw, and the broad headed adjusting screw.

Bill

[FellowCollector]

Thanks Doug…

In my clock persona, I'm well aware of the need for photos, and often emphasize it off in that domain. I've been taking pics here.

But what I'm talking about hasn't to do with the feed screw. It has to do with the main shaft in question. There is a visible ¼" of some shaft behind the pulley --that is, to the left of the pulley. I have believed that it's of a piece with the shaft that drives the mandrel.

What you are seeing is the end of the left side bearing which is stationary.

Please keep in mind what I mentioned several times in prior posts here. You need to loosen / remove everything possible that is attached to the mandrel shaft.

That includes the left side shaft bearing set screws, one on top and one on the left side. You also need to remove the set screw that is inside the driven belt pulley. As noted earlier by me, do NOT lose the internal pin that is used in this pulley in conjunction with the screw to secure the pulley to the shaft.

Once you remove the internal pulley screw and its pin as well as the tiny screw and collar spring on the gear switch "pulley" and the set screws on the feedscrew collar nearest the seized bearing you should be able to move that shaft laterally with the twisting motion.

When you are able to revolve the feedscrew itself independently of the shaft and the driven pulley also revolves freely you should be able to get that shaft out.

Take your time. I don't believe that you've broken anything. It will all make sense after you loosen and remove the parts I mentioned.

When the shaft is out assure that it is not bent at all. Roll it slowly on a flat surface. It needs to be perfectly true so the mandrel spins true after re-install. It takes a lot of force to bend it so you should be OK.

Clean up any marks on the shaft from using the vice grips using an appropriate file and sandpaper for the final touch up. Again, the vice grip marks are meaningless and will be covered by the mandrel.

Good luck. Take your time. You'll be successful. Make sure you get a new brass bearing, another GOOD feedscrew, put all back together as it should be and the old Edison Home model E should sing again!

Doug

[bangster]

I think I have a problem. I've removed every setscrew that I can see. If there's a setscrew in the pulley, I can't see it. And I can't turn the pulley.

If there's a setscrew securing the pulley to the shaft, the pulley should turn when I turn the shaft, shouldn't it? It doesn't.

I'll look for hidden setscrews. Is there a way to turn the pulley to examine its bottom?

This should have been EASY, he thought.

bangster

[phonogfp]

If there's a setscrew in the pulley, I can't see it. And I can't turn the pulley.

The pulley set screw is located in the area between the flanges - where the pulley makes contact with the belt.

George P.

[bangster]

That's what I was afraid of. It's on the bottom, where I cain't get at it.

[bangster]

Progress report:
Managed to get the pulley turned enough to remove the set screw. There was no pin under it. The Reiss book shows a very short screw on top of the pin; this screw is about ⅓" long. Probably the work of some previous repairman. I'll worry about the pin later.

With screw out, visegrips turn the shaft but with some difficulty. Gripping the pulley through a piece of 220 sandpaper, to keep it from slipping, I can turn the shaft inside the pulley, but not easily. Shaft is binding both in the pulley and in the center bearing.

Working the shaft back and forth with the visegrips gives not a millimeter of lateral movement. None. Put a block of wood agains the visegrips and hit it with a hammer. Moved the visegrips along the shaft, moved the shaft not at all. Drenching both ends with Liquid Wrench gave no help.

I've arrived at the situation shown in the pics, but can't proceed further.

What should my next move be?

bangster

DANG! There's so much I can learn from this message board. But right now gotta concentrate on this one problem.

[bangster]

I have just spent another hour and a half doing the same thing over and over, hoping for different results. Didn't get 'em. Shaft will turn, grudgingly, but won't budge longways. Rubber mallet applied to visegrips got nowhere. Wood block and hammer applied to visegrips got nowhere. The pully is out of the picture; the seizure is in the center bearing.

I need a different approach, and I need suggestions from those who know what they're doing. Bless you all.

Would it be possible to cut away the front part of the center bearing?

Argh.

bangster