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Re: Berliner Phonograph Analysis Please

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:04 pm
by JohnM
I remember the $75 Berliner on eBay. I remember the lucky fellow saying that in the time between when he hit the BIN button and the time the computer refreshed, (must have had dial-up) that he held his breath for fear that someone somewhere was doing the same thing as him nut a microsecond sooner! IIRC, the seller stated that they had bought it 30-odd years earlier for the same price, and they were selling it because of a grim medical diagnosis and wanted someone else to have it for the same deal that they had gotten.

Re: Berliner Phonograph Analysis Please

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:04 pm
by gramophone78
I'm still in shock that it has gone to my country Canada.Calgary is not that far from me here in Vancouver.I remember selling some needle tins to an asian man there last year.I think I will email him (if I still have it) and see if he got it.Do we know what it sold for???.The 75.00 Berliner sounds like a great deal indeed.I remember a guy buying a very nice ratchet wind "complete" on a BIN for 7500.00.The seller fixed the price because that's the price that they saw in the first George & Tim book.Thanks guys..... :lol:.What most did not know about that machine was it had the exceedingly rare smaller funnel horn on it.I only know of a handful of the horn.I have one on my hand wind.The new onwer traded that horn for some very rare parts and a regular funnel horn and kept the machine.As for this machine I'm sorry to hear you did not get it.As I wrote a finders fee would have been here for you at anytime.As a follow up on the "New Century".The last one I heard sell went for 1050.00 and was a bit rough but,nice.

Re: Berliner Phonograph Analysis Please

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:26 pm
by antique1973
Sidewinder wrote:
antique1973 wrote:This thread has generated a great deal of interest and many very helpful
insights, thanks so much for all your help! The seller (who was located in
Canada) unfortunately just informed me she sold the package to someone in
Calgary, Canada. I would have been happy to refer her to the members of the
board who are better positioned to buy, but I guess its too late. :x
Sorry to hear that you were not successful. I was holding thumbs for you! I think all collectors dream of finding such an early Berliner with the additional box of records.

Anyone remember the Berliner many years ago that someone bought of ebay just before Christmas, with a "buy it now" of $75 (I think). The phono collector lottery!!! I'm not sure if it was written up on this board
Thanks Sidewinder, I guess it was just not meant to be. I was actually thinking the
deal of the century dropped in my lap when I got the first email. :o I thought the machine was local however at first. Its ok though, there are always other deals out there. :)

Re: Berliner Phonograph Analysis Please

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:28 pm
by antique1973
gramophone78 wrote:I'm still in shock that it has gone to my country Canada.Calgary is not that far from me here in Vancouver.I remember selling some needle tins to an asian man there last year.I think I will email him (if I still have it) and see if he got it.Do we know what it sold for???.The 75.00 Berliner sounds like a great deal indeed.I remember a guy buying a very nice ratchet wind "complete" on a BIN for 7500.00.The seller fixed the price because that's the price that they saw in the first George & Tim book.Thanks guys..... :lol:.What most did not know about that machine was it had the exceedingly rare smaller funnel horn on it.I only know of a handful of the horn.I have one on my hand wind.The new onwer traded that horn for some very rare parts and a regular funnel horn and kept the machine.As for this machine I'm sorry to hear you did not get it.As I wrote a finders fee would have been here for you at anytime.As a follow up on the "New Century".The last one I heard sell went for 1050.00 and was a bit rough but,nice.
That would be nice if you can find the new owner. The seller still did not tell me what it actually sold for for some reason.

Re: Berliner Phonograph Analysis Please

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:34 pm
by brianu
antique1973 wrote:This thread has generated a great deal of interest and many very helpful
insights, thanks so much for all your help! The seller (who was located in
Canada) unfortunately just informed me she sold the package to someone in
Calgary, Canada. I would have been happy to refer her to the members of the
board who are better positioned to buy, but I guess its too late. :x


sorry to hear about that. any idea what she sold it for?

Re: Berliner Phonograph Analysis Please

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:38 pm
by brianu
SonnyPhono wrote:I was the one who posted the thread about the Douglas phonograph. You're obviously confused. Either way, I didn't post that thread to get what I needed and there isn't a "story" behind it. It was found at an auction and yes, I was planning on bidding, but I didn't ask about the value. I simply posted the thread because I had only seen one other phonograph like it and was curious if anyone had more information on it. I was thanked for posting that thread and sharing it with the board so I don't see your point.

you're right, I confused you with the poster of this thread. I apologize for the confusion, it's hard to keep everyone straight on this board at times. beyond that, I think my point was clear enough. you asked for information concerning a pretty rare phonograph, a few people gave you that information, one of them specifically asked where the machine was being auctioned, but there was never any reply nor any update posted and I thought that was unfortunate because the machine obviously generated some interest and provoked some curiosity. that was my point, no more, no less.

Re: Berliner Phonograph Analysis Please

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:55 pm
by phonogfp
antique1973 wrote:This thread has generated a great deal of interest and many very helpful
insights, thanks so much for all your help! The seller (who was located in
Canada) unfortunately just informed me she sold the package to someone in
Calgary, Canada. I would have been happy to refer her to the members of the
board who are better positioned to buy, but I guess its too late. :x
I too am sorry to learn that the deal fell through for you. You're right though - there's always a good deal around the corner. Better luck next time!

George P.

Re: Berliner Phonograph Analysis Please

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:51 pm
by Starkton
An addendum to Robert Law Gibson

I just bought a very rare coin-in-the-slot gramophone, marketed by Deutsche Grammophon from 1907. It was designated "Gibson-Automat No. 1" and employs the Gibson self adjusting arm and matching soundbox. The arm was an invention of Julius Jetter from Camden, New Jersey, who assigned the patent to Gibson. The machine is complete (a miracle!), including the ingenious coin mechanism and automatic raising and lowering of the arm. Luckily, it was put away unmolested by tinkerers for many years. I will post it here when the restoration is completed.

For now here is a drawing from an early catalogue:


Image

Re: Berliner Phonograph Analysis Please

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:31 pm
by phonogfp
That's a great machine! For those who want to see the patent, it is U.S. Patent No.750,977, and the inventor was Julius Jetter. I'm looking forward to those photos, Starkton.

As long as we're touching on Robert L. Gibson again, he either patented or had patents assigned to him for at least 15 different devices (all phonographic except for a valve for pneumatic tires). The sound box that eventually became the "Exhibition" is U.S. Patent No.750460, filed December 7,1900. The quick needle release device is No.801,979, filed January 13, 1905. Later front-mount Victors employed Gibson's metal traveling arm (No.726937) which was filed on August 13, 1902. The earlier Victor front mount machines used wooden traveling arms.

Frank Seaman considered a number of designs for a gramophone other than the "Improved Gramophone" invented and manufactured by Eldridge Johnson. Seaman's contract with Berliner (he had no contract with Johnson) was a personal one, so Seaman's National Gramophone Company (later Corporation) was free to market other designs as long as they didn't violate Berliner patents or the Berliner management approved a license. This the Berliner group - because of its financial ties to Johnson - would not do, although Seaman's contract specifically allowed this (Section Eight). Seaman eventually chose Valiquet's gramophone design and marketed it in late 1899/early 1900 as the Zonophone, a name he had used briefly to market the Berliner "Improved Gramophone." Since Robert Gibson didn't file the U.S. Patent for his spring motor (No.663402) until March 7, 1900, I wonder if timing had anything to do with Seaman's choice of design. In any event, Robert L. Gibson was talented, imaginative fellow.

George P.

Re: Berliner Phonograph Analysis Please

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:49 pm
by antique1973
phonogfp wrote:
antique1973 wrote:This thread has generated a great deal of interest and many very helpful
insights, thanks so much for all your help! The seller (who was located in
Canada) unfortunately just informed me she sold the package to someone in
Calgary, Canada. I would have been happy to refer her to the members of the
board who are better positioned to buy, but I guess its too late. :x
I too am sorry to learn that the deal fell through for you. You're right though - there's always a good deal around the corner. Better luck next time!

George P.

Thanks George, I will just have to keep hunting for my own $75 Berliner. It may
take a while but such is life. :)