The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Update:

I got the lid hinges working… it wasn’t hard to get them apart, cleaned, and put back together.

The motor however is being difficult with me I think I may have lost a ball bearing. Does the govenor shaft ride on a ball bearing in each bearing? If so then I need to get a new set. In the past, the Victrola motors I’ve done have started spinning within 3 cranks when I put it together; this one didn’t. Last night it would be randomly slowing down and speeding up while I was playing a record… tonight it’s not doing it The thing that’s been that most bothersome is that it doesn’t start spinning when the turntable brake is taken off. The platter just remained stationary. If anyone has any advice on how to make it work as it should I would really appreciate it.

Also here’s some pics of the machine after I cleaned it up.

Cheers

David

Inside each brass bearing of the governor there must be a tiny steel ball bearing,at the bottom.

dzavracky wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:08 pm Update:

I got the lid hinges working… it wasn’t hard to get them apart, cleaned, and put back together.

The motor however is being difficult with me I think I may have lost a ball bearing. Does the govenor shaft ride on a ball bearing in each bearing? If so then I need to get a new set. In the past, the Victrola motors I’ve done have started spinning within 3 cranks when I put it together; this one didn’t. Last night it would be randomly slowing down and speeding up while I was playing a record… tonight it’s not doing it The thing that’s been that most bothersome is that it doesn’t start spinning when the turntable brake is taken off. The platter just remained stationary. If anyone has any advice on how to make it work as it should I would really appreciate it.

Also here’s some pics of the machine after I cleaned it up.

Cheers

David

David,

You do need a ball bearing, at least in the governor bearing that bears the thrust. However, I believe both end bearings will have a ball in them. Not saying it's impossible, but I've never had one fall out. Your problem seems more like issues I've had in the past with a worn-out spindle shaft worm and a worn out drive gear, (the big one on the spring barrel). Look very closely at the spindle worm gear area, especially where it meshes with the drive gear. Look for surface roughness and worn contours, especially when compared to the unworn areas above and below the part of the worm that gets the most use.

JerryVan wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:40 pm

dzavracky wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:08 pm Update:

I got the lid hinges working… it wasn’t hard to get them apart, cleaned, and put back together.

The motor however is being difficult with me I think I may have lost a ball bearing. Does the govenor shaft ride on a ball bearing in each bearing? If so then I need to get a new set. In the past, the Victrola motors I’ve done have started spinning within 3 cranks when I put it together; this one didn’t. Last night it would be randomly slowing down and speeding up while I was playing a record… tonight it’s not doing it The thing that’s been that most bothersome is that it doesn’t start spinning when the turntable brake is taken off. The platter just remained stationary. If anyone has any advice on how to make it work as it should I would really appreciate it.

Also here’s some pics of the machine after I cleaned it up.

Cheers

David

David,

You do need a ball bearing, at least in the governor bearing that bears the thrust. However, I believe both end bearings will have a ball in them. Not saying it's impossible, but I've never had one fall out. Your problem seems more like issues I've had in the past with a worn-out spindle shaft worm and a worn out drive gear, (the big one on the spring barrel). Look very closely at the spindle worm gear area, especially where it meshes with the drive gear. Look for surface roughness and worn contours, especially when compared to the unworn areas above and below the part of the worm that gets the most use.

Alrighty I will take a look at it. The motor ran quite nicely before I took it apart.. it was just REALLY thumpy. When I took it apart the second time and checked the govenor bearings, the right bearing did not have a ball bearing inside. I had a smaller ball bearing on hand that seemed to help...

I can take a look at it a little later this week and I will report back

David

It could be the adjustment. At least one of the bearings (I believe the thrust one) has a groove on it for the set screw to go in a fixed position. The opposite one may have no groove, so you may adjust it to have a tiny gap, just moving the axis back and forth and feel there is a small play and no more. This one is the one that may not need a ball bearing. If you installed one, and there was no ball before, just remove it, extract the ball (aha... this is the difficult part) and reinstall as it was before, with that little end play.

It could be the adjustment. At least one of the bearings (I believe the thrust one) has a groove on it for the set screw to go in a fixed position. The opposite one may have no groove, so you may adjust it to have a tiny gap, just moving the axis back and forth and feel there is a small play and no more. This one is the one that may not need a ball bearing. If you installed one, and there was no ball before, just remove it, extract the ball (aha... this is the difficult part) and reinstall as it was before, with that little end play.
Watch the gears and meshing, as jerryvan says. That could be the problem. Or that you reinstalled the governor slightly different as it was before and when running well...
Nevertheless, as time goes by I'm more on the opinion that if it works, don't touch it. I've disassembled and cleaned thoroughly all my motors except one. Invariably, after cleaning and regreasing and all that, all then became noisier than before. The one I never touched, except adding some oil, still works silently... Lesson learned.
Seriously, I've come to believe that the old dry grease on the gears helps filling gaps and worn things. When you remove that old grease, the gears become nude, showing all their war wounds, and become noisier. Just as happens with old cars transmission gears. Slick car sellers used to add some sawdust to the greasing to hide those noises of worn out gearing...

Inigo wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:28 pm Slick car sellers used to add some sawdust to the greasing to hide those noises of worn out gearing...

... and ground-up cork, and even cut-up inner tubes!!!

JerryVan wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:46 pm

dzavracky wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:56 pm

AZ* wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:22 pm
Like any acoustic machine, leaks between the soundbox and the mouth of the horn can reduce performance, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. I suggest that you look for obvious leaks and fix them. One place that caused an issue on my first Credenza was a loose connection between the metal "throat" and the horn. Once I tightened the screw and nut visible in the photo, the leak was gone and performance improved dramatically.
IMG_1709.JPG

I will check when I have some time! I sort of expected the credenza to be louder… but I am using medium tone needles. So maybe I should get some loud ones.

David

If your Cortez and your Credenza are like mine, the Cortez will win out for sheer volume. But, volume isn't everything. The Credenza should have better bass and a more full sound, (in my opinion of course).

You found a very nice example there! So often, the finish on the lid is shot. Mine are walnut as well, which I tend to like a bit better.

I once owned a Hampton (smaller than a Cortez by a few inches) and even with that the sound was, in my opinion, superior to that of a credenza I had listened to. Of course, the Credenza hadn't been properly sealed, so it might not be a fair judgement. My one complaint with the Hampton I owned was the low horn opening- due to my machine missing the legs it was worsened, but the opening is in the bottom third of the horn. From what I've seen, the Cortez doesn't really have this problem. I'd imagine a Brunswick reproducer paired with a folded horn like a Credenza would be about the best acoustic sound you could get.

I tried my panatrope reproducer on the credenza. The sound that came out of the horn was really somethin! You have to jury rig it on tho… the panatrope reproducer back is slightly bigger than the orthophonic.

David

dzavracky wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:57 am I tried my panatrope reproducer on the credenza. The sound that came out of the horn was really somethin! You have to jury rig it on tho… the panatrope reproducer back is slightly bigger than the orthophonic.

David

I bet! Those reproducers are great- quality brass and fiber (I think?) not rubber gaskets, so they don't harden!