The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Lah Ca wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:47 am
It would be nice to find a perfect machine from that zenith--best ever reproducer, arm, horn, and motor combination.

EMG and Expert gramophones such as the Expert Senior pictured by Roines above are probably the best sounding acoustic machines ever made, but their appearance does not appeal to everyone. Their designers regarded folding horns such as the Victor Orthophonic and the HMV Re-Entrant as a compromise, and they were not prepared to compromise on sound quality.

The HMV 5A and 5B are good soundboxes, but aside from EMG and Expert I prefer the Meltrope.

I agree on the gold prize tho HMV 5a/b. I found it very well balanced, when properly restored. As factory-made series product, it may need some adjustment for that point of perfection.

I have an adapter to attach an HMV 5A to an Expert Senior. It sounds great but has that slight hiss of the steel needle. I am getting some thorn Burmese Colour Needles for Christmas and will see how they go with the 5A and the Expert horn

HMV were well aware that needle hiss was a problem with the 5A soundbox. Rather than cure the problem, they simply attached this transfer inside the lids of their table and cabinet models from the 104 to the 203.

Indeed they did, but you can also close the lid on the Expert, and even then there is more of a hiss with steel compared to bamboo needles.

An Balores wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:23 pm I have an adapter to attach an HMV 5A to an Expert Senior. It sounds great but has that slight hiss of the steel needle. I am getting some thorn Burmese Colour Needles for Christmas and will see how they go with the 5A and the Expert horn

That's the thing with 5a/5b. The high end reaches more frequencies, which adds hiss but also clarity to get a crisp reproduction. I've done intensive aural testing with the same machine, records and needles, steel and bamboo, among 1) the Exhibition, 2) a modified Exhibition with aluminium diaphragm, 3) a Meltrope III and 4)5)6) several HMVs 5a and 5b, and these were, in my humble opinion, the absolute winners clearly ahead of the others. Aural tests only, which is subjective and mixes actual reproduction with personal taste. But the high end treble, less mid frequency peak (which produces less apparent volume) and rich bass. The balance sounds more uniform, and is consistent across the 5a/5b different examples. Once you listen to this for a while, when you switch to Meltrope or exhibition, it sounds louder in the mid register, which improves overall volume perceived but removes detail and crispness from the sound. Sometimes a thin Chester touch gets completely hidden behind... also the sybilants, which makes the words less intelligible.

Yes, I agree with what you say about the crispness and detail of the HMV 5A/B boxes. But even they vary. I had a very nice HMV 130 once, which I eventually sold, but before I did, I swapped the soundbox off it with the one on my 102, as it was much richer, fuller and with a better bass. It was very obvious when comparing both boxes on the 102. I don't know how 'tuneable' these boxes are - I never tried fiddling with either of them.

epigramophone wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:03 am

Lah Ca wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:47 am
It would be nice to find a perfect machine from that zenith--best ever reproducer, arm, horn, and motor combination.

EMG and Expert gramophones such as the Expert Senior pictured by Roines above are probably the best sounding acoustic machines ever made, but their appearance does not appeal to everyone. Their designers regarded folding horns such as the Victor Orthophonic and the HMV Re-Entrant as a compromise, and they were not prepared to compromise on sound quality.

The HMV 5A and 5B are good soundboxes, but aside from EMG and Expert I prefer the Meltrope.

Sadly, I came to this hobby far too late in life. I am most unlikely to "find" such a machine here on the west coast of North America.

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/19799/l ... rly-1930s/

https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-1145095

An Balores wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:05 am Yes, I agree with what you say about the crispness and detail of the HMV 5A/B boxes. But even they vary. I had a very nice HMV 130 once, which I eventually sold, but before I did, I swapped the soundbox off it with the one on my 102, as it was much richer, fuller and with a better bass. It was very obvious when comparing both boxes on the 102. I don't know how 'tuneable' these boxes are - I never tried fiddling with either of them.

These are tuneable... I've done it myself. Small things like removing the burrs from the casting of the phase plug, relaxing the pressure on the border of the diaphragm, adjusting the backplate at the minimum pressure that maintains airtightness but no more... These small things change noticeably the sound of that sensitive soundbox.
One must also be aware that different horns add different impedances to the soundbox and tonearm, si the same soundbox can sound very different in small horns or big horns

Thank you for that information, interesting. However, I won't tinker with mine as it does sound superb, remarkably better than the one that was on the 102 originally.