The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

This past weekend I found a barrel cactus that had nice thin, straight needles.
I was out for an hour just gathering them.
Then it took two hours to clip and sharpen 50 needles.
Well worth the effort and pinches.

Here is a link to some gathered information for your review...
http://victrolagramophones.proboards.co ... thread=968

James.

This video might have been posted in the past (it might have even been made by one of our own?), but it was new to me:

https://youtu.be/Y8zm64GGizY?si=stkZMhJViIAR0mk0

In short, the video presents a shellac recording that had been subjected to 100 recent plays with a medium-toned needle (changed properly, of course). If there are any signs of degradation, I can’t hear ‘em.

Perhaps recording "live" with a microphone of unknown quality is not the most accurate procedure to assess/discern the level of possible wear.

However, this goes in the same direction as the comments of experienced users on the board: that is, that listening to clean records with a high quality unused needle mounted on a well rehauled soundbox connected to a tonearm with low tracking error, causes no wear or no preceptible wear.

That is true, provided that the record is of good quality. There are other records that, even new, are spoiled by the first single play... Columbia Viva Tonal records are typically of very good quality, as are Victors... Old Columbia blue label records have aged worse, and I found them today more noisy.

Inigo wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 8:03 am Old Columbia blue label records have aged worse, and I found them today more noisy.

The blue Columbias that you refer are of which origin, Iñigo? English?

CarlosV wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 3:13 pm

Inigo wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 8:03 am Old Columbia blue label records have aged worse, and I found them today more noisy.

The blue Columbias that you refer are of which origin, Iñigo? English?

He most probably means the common American issues from the mid 'teens to the mid 20's- Blue was the standard label color but other colors were used for their ethnic issues.

Yes, yes... The blue label with gold band USA popular A series. Don't know when new... 100 years later they are noisy.
Acoustic Victors of the black label series, 17000-19000, which have soft surfaces and silent grooves have aged much better and are still very silent.

Inigo wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:05 am Yes, yes... The blue label with gold band USA popular A series. Don't know when new... 100 years later they are noisy.
Acoustic Victors of the black label series, 17000-19000, which have soft surfaces and silent grooves have aged much better and are still very silent.

I think the issue with these Columbias is more related to susceptibility to wear than ageing. I have some that are in great condition, and they sound more or less like the Victors of the period, with relatively quiet surfaces. But most of the blue Columbias we can find today show different degrees of wear, and these have a lot of noise, more than a Victor with the same visual aspect. Columbia only jumped ahead of competition in terms of record quality when they adopted the lamination process in the early twenties, starting - I think - with the gold label with a banner.

CarlosV wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:49 am

Inigo wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:05 am Yes, yes... The blue label with gold band USA popular A series. Don't know when new... 100 years later they are noisy.
Acoustic Victors of the black label series, 17000-19000, which have soft surfaces and silent grooves have aged much better and are still very silent.

I think the issue with these Columbias is more related to susceptibility to wear than ageing. I have some that are in great condition, and they sound more or less like the Victors of the period, with relatively quiet surfaces. But most of the blue Columbias we can find today show different degrees of wear, and these have a lot of noise, more than a Victor with the same visual aspect. Columbia only jumped ahead of competition in terms of record quality when they adopted the lamination process in the early twenties, starting - I think - with the gold label with a banner.

I think that a part of the blame is Columbia machines themselves- unlike Victor their arms didn't use ball bearings but relied on friction fit- tight enough to keep the arm properly aligned and acoustically tight, but it did add to the side force on the groove. It wasn't until the New Columbia and VivaTonal machines that they were kind to records.

I also think there was something in the shellac composition. Comparing "Symphony Series:" records to the popular issue discs from the same era the more expensive discs show less wear- though I admit that they may have been placed less.

Here's my opinion and please remember what opinions are like and how everybody's got one.
When you play a record on a gramophone the needle is what wears out. This applies to steel needles, thorns, fibre, martini cocktail sticks and even diamond styluss.
I think this is natural. The record wears the needle not the other way round. 78s are not and never have been hifi.
In other words play your records however you like. The wear will not be noticeable. And nobody expected 78s to be played over 100 years later. Nostalgia wasn't a thing in the 1920s