78 record wear

[kirtley2012]

I was wondering, what is the best way to play 78s with minimal wear?, i realise that fiber needles are usually best for near mint records however they still widen the groove over time and ruin the record, i was wondering if i make a counterweight like one emg used to make to reduce the weight of the reproducer on the record then would that reduce the wear much?, i have some very good records and i dont want to ruin them!

[OrthoSean]

A modern system with a lightweight pickup is the only way you'll be certain you aren't wearing 78s, honestly.

A side note on fiber needles, how do they widen the grooves? I've played a few absolutely mint 78s over and over on my EMG with them and they still look and sound new, even on modern equipment. I pay very close attention to record wear, so this comes from a couple of decades of using fibers...

Sean

[kirtley2012]

I presume it is the needles wearing down to fast, im not sure though, im only passing on information ive been told!, however, from what youve just told me, it sounds as if i should go and find a fiber needle cutter and some needles!

[gramophoneshane]

I think whoever told you that fibre needles widen the groove was talking complete nonsense.

[Swing Band Heaven]

The only thing I have noticed with thorn needles (I gave up with fibre) is that on later pressings from the late 1930's onwards that after repeated playings with a thorn needle when it was then played on a modern set up the record had excessive hiss. I am not sure if this is as a result of wear or build up of thorn residue in the groove or a bit of both.

Like Sean - the best copies of my records are played on the modern equipment with a lightweight pick up and worn disks or second best copies on the 1930's radiogram or acoustic machine. Others might not agree with this but as some of these disks have survived 70 years plus in great condition it would be nice to think that when the next owner has them after me that their condition is just as great.

[Nat]

I have a rather ample collection of acoustic records, so the frequency with which any one record in played, is low. But having had, and played, some of them on an acoustic machine for the last 45 years, and given that some are now over a century old - I have to surmise that wear is not a big issue.

I do change needles after each play, and I make sure the records are clean - each one is wiped with a brush before every play, and all are properly washed before they are played a tall. dirt is a big destroyer of records.

BTW - in my industry we work a lot with flourocarbon membranes, which resist dirt and provide extremely low friction. It would be interesting to work on flourocarbons on records - and ideas? Experiences?

[alang]

So you ask about something like PTFE (Teflon)? One could try Teflon spray on a record? Would something like that be acceptable since not "period correct"?
Andreas

[Nat]

I work in the ski business, and we use pure fluorocarbons in powder, or cake (rub-on) form. Any carrier has to be such that it evaporates or in some fashion leaves a pure fluorocarbon membrane on the ski base.

The problem is adhesion, as fluorocarbons are extremely hard to bond to any carrying surface. We use heat, applied either directly in the form of ironing (clearly impossible here), or by rubbing in with felt or a special rotating cork. My thought is that the tremendous pressure at the point of needle-record contact (does anyone know how many pounds per square inch a typical Victor reproducer exerts?), which generate a good deal of heat, would bond the fluorocarbon at the point of contact, especially given the porous surface; and fluorocarbons and graphite are often used in combination, though for reasons relating more to static dispersion than lubrication.

I'm going to mess with this, and see if there is any audible difference: perhaps crayon a solid fluoro onto a record, disperse it with a dedicated brush, and let the needle do the rest.

The substances in question are not the common teflon sprays: a cake of the stuff about the size of a postage stamp, costs well over $100. I've asked my old supplier if he can shoot me some samples. We'll see what develops.

[epigramophone]

A thorn or fibre needle is likely to generate more heat than a steel one.

Steel is a good conductor of heat. Wood is not.

I have even heard it said that the heat generated by a thorn or fibre needle can damage the groove walls of a record, but I would have thought that damage might only occur if the needle was not hard enough or not sharp enough.

The debate as to which needles are the best is as old as the hobby.

[Nat]

So you ask about something like PTFE (Teflon)? One could try Teflon spray on a record? Would something like that be acceptable since not "period correct"?
Andreas

Sorry - I didn't address the 2nd part of your question: the use of a fluorocarbon compound would clearly NOT be period correct, but my thought is that a)it's simply interesting, and b) if it preserves old records, that must be seen as a good thing. Fluorocarbon membranes are so thin as to be invisible - but it's a bit like the question in another field I wander around it, that of old (18th century & earlier) books: a) at what point do you re-bind, and what do you aim to preserve in the original binding; and b) various leather preservatives, including the one used by the British Museum, may cause eventual deterioration, even if they produce immediate positive effects.

I guess the bottom line is "preservation".