The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

epigramophone wrote:As a UK based collector, I am curious to know why a Canadian VV 4-3 should be worth less than an American one.

I personally think it's simply because (much as we might like to) there isn't enough time, space, or money to collect everything, so we narrow our interests. While I wouldn't reject a non-American machine just because it's not American, neither do I actively pursue non-American machines, unless they are particularly noteworthy. There are more than enough American machines to keep me busy for the next several lifetimes. Of course others will feel differently.

Having said that, if anyone would like to sell me their spare EMG/Expert machine for $100 or so, I'll be happy to take it

Nathan,

Best of luck on the project. I hope you will keep us informed of your progress, including some "after" pictures.

Clay

FloridaClay wrote:Nathan,

Best of luck on the project. I hope you will keep us informed of your progress, including some "after" pictures.

Clay

Thanks Clay! I start school again tomorrow, so I decided I am satisfied with the machine as it is, with only the "Restore a finish" used. The lid still looks rough, but the color is at least more even. The 4-3 doesn't photograph well without the flash, but here are some pictures.
I have yet to get the tonearm and governor repaired, but the parts are on the way. It is far from a perfect machine, but I won't have time to attempt much more now, but it doesn't display too badly. The left door refuses to stay open wider than in the photo, so I'll have to work on that.

I tried contacting Peter Wall through ebay, but still have not heard back from him. Hopefully he responds soon. I can't wait to hear this machine play!

Nathan

Your 4-3 looks great Nathan. PM sent.
Mike

Very nice machine. While I do not seek out the non-American made machines. I ended up with a Japanese Orthophonic J 1-80. I would have prefered a VV 1-90, but they are kind of hard to find.

So, if its a Orthophonic type at the right price, why not. Especially if the machine is located close to where you live.

The lid looks a lot better and should carry you through until/if you decide to refinish it.

Clay

That is a great looking machine.
Since were on the subject of Canadian Victors, here's a scan from the 1927 catalogue of the Avara..the 4-90. This is my " one that got away" ,to my eternal regret and stupidity, and I've never seen another. It used the same size horn as the Barona...the 4-40 and it's a very handsome pierce of cabinetry indeed and does not look like a radio, as one might suspect from the illustration. I wish it were standing in my music room now! ( One of my clients has an Alvara with the legs cut off. Why did they DO that? )


Jim

As a general matter, are there usually a lot of differences in the Canadian Victors, or do they mostly tend to be renamed U.S. models. I just don't know much about Canadian versions.

Clay

FloridaClay wrote:As a general matter, are there usually a lot of differences in the Canadian Victors, or do they mostly tend to be renamed U.S. models. I just don't know much about Canadian versions.

I know nothing about Canadian models, but so far one difference in the cabinet of Nathan's 4-3 and my own American 4-3 is the Canadian cabinet has a nice bullseye moulding above the horn grille which the American does not have. Otherwise, the doors and legs are the same.

Mike

Most of the Canadian Victrolas differ from the American version only in details if at all. That said, in the open horn era, Berliner offered it's own line of models which differed significantly from the Victor machines. I think after about 1906 one could get BOTH lines from the local dealer...the ads spoke of " "Berliner or Victor" machines and towards 1909 Berliner began to phase out their own models and replaced them entirely with Victor I through VI as well as the Victrola line. The Berliner open horn machines used both the Berliner reproducers and the Exhibition sound box. However the tapered tone arms on the larger Berliners: the Model J and GT for example look the same as the Victor arms but I understand they are not interchangeable.

By 1912 the Berliner machine catalogue was offering American models only.
After this point there were from time to time different models offered up here ...like the Victrola XIII of 1920...and then others in the Orthophonic era. I have the 1927 and 1928 machine catalogues...from which I scanned the Alva blurb....and we did not have the full line of American instruments ,but we did have a couple which weren't offered in the US...the Alvara being a case in point. And there are odd little things, like the children's Victrola, the 1-2 with the coloured decorations which up here was the HMV model as sold in the UK, if the illustrations are to be believed.

It's all rather complex but lots of fun and I have always been meaning to write a full article on this subject but I never have the time to research the Canadian Music and Trades Journal which would requite a trip down to Ottawa to the National Library. I should go before the wretched Tories sell the whole collection for recycling Oops? Did I say that out loud?

Jim