Waterbased finish - horrible mess

[gramophoneshane]

It doesn't take long to get the hang of using shellac IMO. It's quick & convenient, and is probably more forgiving than most other finishes. It's usually fairly easy to correct any mistakes, and in a year or two if you get better at using shellac, or just decide to freshen a machine up, it's as simple as washing any wax off, steel wooling the machine & it's ready for another coat.
I collect all sorts of old furniture, but as I'm living at home & have very little room, I've been half doing a lot of my stuff then stacking it away. Then when I'm bored or have no machines waiting in line, I can pull something out & add a couple more coats, and it doesn't matter if the stuff gets knocked around or covered in dust etc.
I'm glad the shellac worked out. Most modern finishes cant hold a candle to it I think.

[frenchmarky]

Here's a pic after I've got it all screwed back together. It looks somewhat lighter in this picture, believe me NOW it is mahogany! Boy this was a lot more work than I expected at first, having to take out almost every screw and bolt and strip/sand/stain every square inch of the exterior. Plus I had to dig up a horn grille elsewhere, it was missing. Now I'm going to give this machine to my mom and retake possession of an older upright Victrola I gave her before. I wanted her to be able to get more enjoyment out of all the electric records I have, so it had to be restored to the mahogany color to match her furnishings. This Credenza is bigger and classier looking too.
After it fully cures in a week or two, I'll dull the shiny finish down a bit with super-fine steel wool and then finish with some Danish Oil.
Thanks for all the wonderful info everybody, I'll use them on my next project whenever that is.

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[Brad]

Wow, it looks great. We told you you would make it through alive

Do you have an before and during pictures to add? The chronicles are always interesting to look at.

Congrats!

[frenchmarky]

Here's a couple of before pics. The cabinet itself was in very good, solid shape - it was just the incorrect light staining job that was the problem. In addition the previous refinish was very tired, thin and scratched and there was some bad water stains on the lid. If the finish had been really good I could have lived with the incorrect color, but since it wasn't I decided a total overhaul was due. In contrast, my Victrola 10-50 was refinished in not quite as much lighter a color, and the job they did was *extremely* good so I am perfectly happy with it. Plus the lighter color does fit my own home better.

I got the Credenza on Ebay for $250, plus about $300 for a horn grille, a new brake trip rod, and the myriad of strippers, brushes, shellac etc. (started nearly from scratch.) It did have a really nice uncracked soundbox which I performed a ball bearing and flange rubber replacement on. Lubed and cleaned the a/c motor and the tonearm bearing. It had a big round hole cut in the bottom half of the horn (WHY I don't know) which I patched up. Undid all the weird acoustic piping that someone had spliced into the iron horn inlet, and removed some extra a/c wiring that they had added for... something(?) Whatever was added, they took it back out but left the extra 120v wires dangling inside with bare, frayed ends just waiting to either start a fire or electrocute somebody. Geez at *least* one person who owned this machine before me was an ignoramus!!

Anyway it is all buttoned up and now looks as great as it sounds. I can't really tell the difference between it and my 10-50, but then the horns are very nearly the same size. Hope my mom likes it!
Marky

[larryh]

Am I mistaken or isn't this a Walnut Cabinet? Its about the same effect an color my Walnut one was. I have a friend that has a Mahogany one an its quite dark in comparison? Either way you have done a great job, especially for a first try at the shellac. I put up a few photos of my William and Mary Lacquer finish on the Tips Thread.

Larry

[frenchmarky]

I was never really sure exactly what the wood was supposed to be. And it wasn't easy to tell the general darkness just going by the existing lid underside and the backs of the doors. The door backs are much darker than the lid bottom, but both are original. I went with a 'dark mahogany' stain and it is appx. the same darkness as the lid and motorboard, and maybe a little more on the reddish side but I'm looking at it under yucky, too-bright lights in the garage.

How can one immediately distinguish between walnut and mahogany? Seems difficult to me looking at pictures on the internet, since each example has already been stained in one shade or another. There must be some general identifying things in the woodgraining that should make me go "Ohhh that's walnut/mahogany"?

In other words, now my Credenza is very dark brown instead of icky-yucky very light yellow-brown 8 )
Thanks for the compliment on my first attempt, much appreciated.
Marky

[Kirkwood]

The hole in the horn and the "acoustic piping" sounds like someone's attempt to use the Orthophonic horn for their radio amplification. You know that Victor sold a variation of this Credenza with a radio driver built-in-----simply plug a jack and speaker wires into receptacle in the back and connect the other end of the wires to your Radiola (or Grebe, Crosley, Freshman Masterpiece, what-have-you). The receptacle had wiring connected to a driver that fastened onto a pipe-type device that ended up in a pot-metal cannister that would enable the user to switch between the Radio or the Victrola as a source of music. It was short-lived, and Victor didn't supply this option for free, as far as I know. Radio guys were great tinkerers back then, and maybe one of them got the bright idea to do the same thing at home, probably with less than stellar results. It saved forking over a few bucks to Victor for the same feature. It's just a thought.......

[JohnM]

I was never really sure exactly what the wood was supposed to be. And it wasn't easy to tell the general darkness just going by the existing lid underside and the backs of the doors. The door backs are much darker than the lid bottom, but both are original. I went with a 'dark mahogany' stain and it is appx. the same darkness as the lid and motorboard, and maybe a little more on the reddish side but I'm looking at it under yucky, too-bright lights in the garage.

How can one immediately distinguish between walnut and mahogany? Seems difficult to me looking at pictures on the internet, since each example has already been stained in one shade or another. There must be some general identifying things in the woodgraining that should make me go "Ohhh that's walnut/mahogany"?

In other words, now my Credenza is very dark brown instead of icky-yucky very light yellow-brown 8 )
Thanks for the compliment on my first attempt, much appreciated.
Marky

Wood identification 100:

Quarter-sawn oak

Quarter-sawn white oak. Quarter-sawing is a method of cutting the log at the sawmill that reveals the greatest amount of 'figure' in the wood by exposing the medullary rays of the grain. It is the most time-consuming and wasteful way to saw oak. Most oak you see nowadays is plain-sawn or rift-sawn. Easier, faster, and less wasteful ways to saw the log, but revealing much less of the grain than quarter-sawing. You may hear auctioneers and inexperienced antiques dealers call it '"tiger oak" or some other vernacular name, but what it really is if you were going to order it from a supplier is quarter-sawn oak.

quarter_sawn_red_oak.jpg (89.99 KiB) Viewed 2939 times

More: http://barnyardgazette.blogspot.com/200 ... n-oak.html

Mahogany

Fine grain, distinct red to brown color. Some boards may have a 'flame' or 'ribbon' appearance to the grain that appears 'deeper' under the finish than the figure in quarter-sawn oak. These are sawn from 'crotches' where branches meet trunks.

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Walnut

Brown to black grain, sometimes wide, with long and/or looping figure. Burl veneers are sometimes used with tight. curling figure. Circassian walnut is from the Circassas Mountains of Eastern Europe and is lighter color than American black walnut and highly figured. Usually encountered only as a veneer.

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Unfinished Circassian walnut veneer

Circassian_closeup.jpg (37.64 KiB) Viewed 2939 times

Burl walnut. Usually encountered only as a veneer.

[JohnM]

I should probably add that these woods may be finished in a variety of ways -- piano finish, dull, weathered, fumed, Flemish, driftwood, whatever depending upon the wood used. This adds a sub-category in describing how a cabinet should appear in addition to the basic wood type used.

[frenchmarky]

I delivered the Credenza to my mom today, and she said it could be walnut but isn't sure either. It does have very noticeable rows of 'waves' in it in places like the Circassian pic above, but I'm pretty sure the Credenza wasn't available in this. I'm referring to the waves in the pic that have a three-dimensional appearance, like folds in a fabric. So are these ripples also a good indicator of 'regular' walnut? Also it has the separate thick, dark grains or lines in it like the Walnut pic. I guess mahogany doesn't really have much of these dark lines, but rather only overall lighter and darker zones (?)

My mom is VERY happy with the results of all my hours of work, and says it sounds much 'brighter' and has more bass than her old one. Someone sent me pics of their walnut Credenza and looks just like mine turned out, so I think I did OK. I am going to give the displaced older Victrola to my sister. I'm propagating the Victor bug to all my relatives! I even gave my ex-girlfriend an English-brand phonograph 3 years ago. She dumped me anyway... maybe if it had been a Victrola she'd still be around ; )
Marky