The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Curt A wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:55 am The last pic is correct...

Thanks! Unfortunately, the result is still the same: when the needle is on the record, it slows down then stops.

Woody wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 10:58 am

While it’s not the quickest or easiest process, Discogs is a great resource. If you look up (for example) Artie Shaw and then scroll down the results for a bit, you’ll have the option to filter your search of his records by format (78 RPM) and label, and then you can hunt through the list for your particular song. The label in the center of the disk will also include a release number, which can help if the label issued the disk a few times. Discogs has the year in their database.
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Thanks! I didn't know that site, I will go check it out

MarieP wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:18 am

Curt A wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:55 am The last pic is correct...

Thanks! Unfortunately, the result is still the same: when the needle is on the record, it slows down then stops.

Marie,

How far are you winding the motor before attempting to play a record? It's a common mistake to not wind sufficiently enough to play a record. You mentioned earlier that when wound, the motor ran for 2.5 minutes or so. If it only ran that long, and without the load of playing a record, then it was not wound enough.

I'll also state that I'm still skeptical as to the condition of your springs. At bare minimum, they should be cleaned & regreased. Also, depending on where the break in a spring occurs, the motor may still be able to run... somewhat.

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Marie,

How far are you winding the motor before attempting to play a record? It's a common mistake to not wind sufficiently enough to play a record. You mentioned earlier that when wound, the motor ran for 2.5 minutes or so. If it only ran that long, and without the load of playing a record, then it was not wound enough.

I'll also state that I'm still skeptical as to the condition of your springs. At bare minimum, they should be cleaned & regreased. Also, depending on where the break in a spring occurs, the motor may still be able to run... somewhat.
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I tried winding it up 6-7 cranks just to try it. Actually, when I put the needle back up, the plate starts spinning again.
It's really like if the needle put too much weight on the record if I may say so.

My guess is that the springs are quite far indeed, but I wanted to try before cleaning the springs as soon as I can lay my hands on new grease and the tools necessary to open the motor, as for now it's still running.

MarieP wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:17 pm
I tried winding it up 6-7 cranks just to try it. Actually, when I put the needle back up, the plate starts spinning again.
It's really like if the needle put too much weight on the record if I may say so.

My guess is that the springs are quite far indeed, but I wanted to try before cleaning the springs as soon as I can lay my hands on new grease and the tools necessary to open the motor, as for now it's still running.

If you only cranked it 6 or 7 times from being fully unwound, it's not nearly enough to play a record. Try maybe 20 cranks or more.

MarieP wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:17 pm
I tried winding it up 6-7 cranks just to try it. Actually, when I put the needle back up, the plate starts spinning again.
It's really like if the needle put too much weight on the record if I may say so.

My guess is that the springs are quite far indeed, but I wanted to try before cleaning the springs as soon as I can lay my hands on new grease and the tools necessary to open the motor, as for now it's still running.

Marie, I suggest you try that:
- let the turntable run until it slows down and stops
- engage the break that stops the turntable
- wind up the crank some 25 turns at least, until you feel it becomes harder to wind it
- put a new needle, try to get one that looks unused
- if you have more then one record, try to get one that looks shiny and not worn out like the one on the photo - don't pay attention to how old it is, just how nice and shiny it looks
- release the break, let the turntable run for some 10 seconds until its reaches its normal speed, and then put the arm down on the record

If the record is too worn, the needle is worn, or both, playing the record generates a lot of friction that may overcome the motor and slow it down.

CarlosV wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:00 pm

MarieP wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:17 pm
I tried winding it up 6-7 cranks just to try it. Actually, when I put the needle back up, the plate starts spinning again.
It's really like if the needle put too much weight on the record if I may say so.

My guess is that the springs are quite far indeed, but I wanted to try before cleaning the springs as soon as I can lay my hands on new grease and the tools necessary to open the motor, as for now it's still running.

Marie, I suggest you try that:
- let the turntable run until it slows down and stops
- engage the break that stops the turntable
- wind up the crank some 25 turns at least, until you feel it becomes harder to wind it
- put a new needle, try to get one that looks unused
- if you have more then one record, try to get one that looks shiny and not worn out like the one on the photo - don't pay attention to how old it is, just how nice and shiny it looks
- release the break, let the turntable run for some 10 seconds until its reaches its normal speed, and then put the arm down on the record

If the record is too worn, the needle is worn, or both, playing the record generates a lot of friction that may overcome the motor and slow it down.

Carlos,

Thank you so much for your kind advise, I had the opportunity to get my hands on a stack of records, so I tested that today:

- I wound up the crank some 20 turns, not more since I both felt it became harder to wind it and I heard that ominous "tunk" sound comming from the springs
- I put one of the few needles I have that looked unused and put on a record that wasn't as worn down as the previous one
-> one question that popped up: where can I find new needles? I have about 90 here, but most of them are rusted and worn out, and a few of those turned total black from oxidation after I put them in vinegar to try to get the rust off and left them for too long, hence I wouldnt dare to use them.
-> Also, I hear lots of differnt opinions regarding the needles, some advise to change the needle after each play, others say the needle range from 500 to 1000hrs of play?
- I waited 10 seconds and then put the arm down on the record

=> the sound that came out for at least one minute was amazing (if you except some scratching sound from the needle, but I think this is quite normal)
=> however, mid-record, the table started slowing down and I lost the sound (cf. video). I believe its truly time to change the springs

The "tunk" sound you're hearing is probably due to dried and hardened grease which prevents the layers of the spring from sliding over one another as you wind or run the motor. This robs power and also makes it hard to wind. It "tunks" when the winding/uwinding forces finally overcome binding & sticking caused by the hard grease and spring releases in a small burst, (the "tunk"). Barring any breaks, all that may be required is a cleaning and regreasing. BTW, it's okay to wind while playing. So, when the record begins to slow down, just give it a few more cranks and keep playing.

MarieP wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 7:13 am -> one question that popped up: where can I find new needles? I have about 90 here, but most of them are rusted and worn out, and a few of those turned total black from oxidation after I put them in vinegar to try to get the rust off and left them for too long, hence I wouldnt dare to use them.
-> Also, I hear lots of differnt opinions regarding the needles, some advise to change the needle after each play, others say the needle range from 500 to 1000hrs of play?

New steel needles are still being produced and are readily available on eBay. They come in several grades or "tones" from Extra Soft to Extra Loud, and the ones supplied by forum member "Soundgen" are of good quality. Ideally they should be changed after playing one side only. You mention a possible 500 to 1000 hours of play, but this probably refers to the sapphire or diamond stylii used for playing vinyl records on hi-fi equipment.

The HMV130 has no doors over the horn mouth to act as a volume control, so you need to select the grade of needle best suited to the records being played. If the soundbox is in good order, Soft or at the most Medium tone should be loud enough for indoor playing.

MarieP wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 7:13 am
-> one question that popped up: where can I find new needles? I have about 90 here, but most of them are rusted and worn out, and a few of those turned total black from oxidation after I put them in vinegar to try to get the rust off and left them for too long, hence I wouldnt dare to use them.
-> Also, I hear lots of differnt opinions regarding the needles, some advise to change the needle after each play, others say the needle range from 500 to 1000hrs of play?

=> the sound that came out for at least one minute was amazing (if you except some scratching sound from the needle, but I think this is quite normal)
=> however, mid-record, the table started slowing down and I lost the sound (cf. video). I believe its truly time to change the springs

Hi Marie

Needles: these steel needles are made to played only once. The ones designed to play for 500-100 hours are made of jewel like sapphire or diamond, and are not designed for acoustic gramophones like yours, but for lighter weight arms of radiograms or modern turntable. If you put one of these jewel needles on your 130, it will eat away the record right away. And rusty needles are a no-no: that means that their tips are pitted and they will act as chisels creating large friction and damaging the records. For suppliers of newly made steel needles, I suggest you try the dealer soundgen in UK eBay, he sells packs of needles and from what I read in this forum, he has good feedback concerning the quality of the needles he sells.

Slowing down: I am not certain that the springs need replacement. If you can crank 20+ turns without noticing any sudden release of the winding force while doing it, this means that the springs are not broken. They may produce a thump, which means that the grease is gluing adjacent parts of the spring, and the crank force makes them unglue. I suggest that you remove with a toothbrush the lumps of grease and crud that may be in the motor gears, and lubricate its moving parts by applying sewing oil to the parts that rotate, including the main spindle that holds the record, the rotating axes of each gear and the felt pad of the governor that controls the speed, and apply grease to the teeth of the gears. This may reduce any abnormal friction that may be present due to the decades of dust accumulation. After doing that, wind and let the motor run down for two or three times, and try to play a record again - with a new needle.