Good phonograph for newbies?

[m1tch]

That was an awesome post, thanks Steve!

I never thought about the depth of the machine vs portability, it seems that I will be aiming for a 102 then as although the outlay might be a bit higher, parts costs are lower and it would be easier to sell on etc.

I have seen a few on the UK ebay over here, most trays have wings and a green felt base, I think if there was a missing tray or an odd colour I might just re-felt it.

With regards to the stylish black 102s - I'm guessing the most sought after - I will aim for one of those first, if I can't find a good condition black one (I don't mind a bit of refurb work) I will probably go for a more common coloured one and recover it. If I didn't get a good condition black 102 off the bat I would probably put some woodwork on a common 102 and make it look more like the 461.

I did find a 460 luminare diaphragm...was selling for £2800, so that's like $3500! I'm thinking if I go for a 102 the parts and support would be greater, even if the machine needs work, it would be good as then I would know how things work and if there were any issues I would know what to do.

Are there really no reference material for the 102? Not even an online guide to one that someone has made whilst they were refurbing theirs?

[OrthoFan]

...Are there really no reference material for the 102? Not even an online guide to one that someone has made whilst they were refurbing theirs?

There's nothing specific to the HMV 102, that I know of either. Probably your best bet would be to purchase a copy of "The Compleat Talking Machine" by Eric Reiss, mentioned in an earlier post. (That's the way "complete" is spelled in the book's title, btw.)

The book is well illustrated and walks you through most repair steps. (Most gramophone motors are similar in design and function.)

Along this line, there are also some online phonograph/gramophones manuals available at the Old Nipperhead site -- http://www.nipperhead.com/old/ephemera.htm

I also spotted a few general (spring) repair videos on YouTube, using Google:

CLICK HERE

If you'd like a history of the HMV portable, you may also want to hunt down a copy of "The Perfect Portable" by Dave Cooper. It provides an illustrated history of most HMV portables, along with information about various components. It's available (as a special order) at most major well-stocked booksellers, as well as online (Amazon.com, etc.).

HTH

[m1tch]

...Are there really no reference material for the 102? Not even an online guide to one that someone has made whilst they were refurbing theirs?

There's nothing specific to the HMV 102, that I know of either. Probably your best bet would be to purchase a copy of "The Compleat Talking Machine" by Eric Reiss, mentioned in an earlier post. (That's the way "complete" is spelled in the book's title, btw.)

The book is well illustrated and walks you through most repair steps. (Most gramophone motors are similar in design and function.)

Along this line, there are also some online phonograph/gramophones manuals available at the Old Nipperhead site -- http://www.nipperhead.com/old/ephemera.htm

I also spotted a few general (spring) repair videos on YouTube, using Google:

CLICK HERE

If you'd like a history of the HMV portable, you may also want to hunt down a copy of "The Perfect Portable" by Dave Cooper. It provides an illustrated history of most HMV portables, along with information about various components. It's available (as a special order) at most major well-stocked booksellers, as well as online (Amazon.com, etc.).

HTH

Awesome thanks for that, I will bear that in mind, I just wanted to make sure I was pointed towards resources that would be of help, rather than finding sketchy information, trying to repair bits, and then find links/books like those after I had fixed it lol

[Steve]

With regards to the stylish black 102s - I'm guessing the most sought after - I will aim for one of those first, if I can't find a good condition black one (I don't mind a bit of refurb work) I will probably go for a more common coloured one and recover it

No, no, no. You have got that the wrong way around completely. The BLACK 102's are the very COMMON ones. The R,G and Blue ones are not rare by any means but they are no where near as common. The rare ones are grey, brown and red leather.

[m1tch]

So a fine example such as this:



Is the most common?

[Steve]

Well yes and no! Yes, a 102 in a black case like that is very common BUT you've managed to find a picture of a LATE 102 from the early '50's which just so happened to be very slightly different to all the earlier black ones by virtue of the 5B soundbox and more importantly the flush fitting motorboard. Note, that on the earlier models the motor board is approx. ⅜" lower than the top edge (rim) of the bottom part of the case. It's a minor point but these late examples tend to turn up in much better condition due to their younger age and correspondingly shorter life of active use.

[m1tch]

Well yes and no! Yes, a 102 in a black case like that is very common BUT you've managed to find a picture of a LATE 102 from the early '50's which just so happened to be very slightly different to all the earlier black ones by virtue of the 5B soundbox and more importantly the flush fitting motorboard. Note, that on the earlier models the motor board is approx. ⅜" lower than the top edge (rim) of the bottom part of the case. It's a minor point but these late examples tend to turn up in much better condition due to their younger age and correspondingly shorter life of active use.

How typical of me!

Would this be an earlier one then:



Which machine would you feel is best? would the later 5B soundboard be better as its newer?

[Steve]

Would this be an earlier one then:

Yes!

Which is better? It's a personal choice really, I can't say. I prefer a bit more age and I like the wooden veneered motor boards of the earlier models. I doubt there will be any significant measurable difference between the soundboxes of either age. They tend to deteriorate due to the impurities of the pot metal alloy. This happens mainly during the first 50 years anyway so it makes little or no difference now.

[m1tch]

Would this be an earlier one then:

Yes!

Which is better? It's a personal choice really, I can't say. I prefer a bit more age and I like the wooden veneered motor boards of the earlier models. I doubt there will be any significant measurable difference between the soundboxes of either age. They tend to deteriorate due to the impurities of the pot metal alloy. This happens mainly during the first 50 years anyway so it makes little or no difference now.

Ah ok

I like the wood veneered motor board as well, when I first saw that top later 102 picture I was wondering why it looked a bit different

Did you say reconditioning a earlier sound board was easy? Is it just a case of taking the mechanical parts out and repairing joints or would I need to put new woodwork in?

Anyone got a photo of a 102 opened up at all?

[Steve]

Don't confuse 'soundboard' with horn. I said 'soundbox' which is another word for reproducer or perhaps most commonly and familiar (over here), pickup.

There is no wood anywhere! The soundbox/pickup/reproducer is an all metal affair. The No. 4 type on the 461 has a mica diaphragm. The later 5/5a/5b type as shown on the 102 above all have pressed aluminium diaphragms. The mica type (No. 4) usually have a rubber gasket ring that needs replacing.