The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Maybe someone can start a thread about a burl-walnut, lowboy art-model off-brand machine.

The term "off-brand" has a double meaning:
1. A brand or name that is unrecognized or relatively unfamiliar.
2. A cheap or inferior brand.

Fuel of this, ultimately fruitless, debate is where you put the emphasis.

For me, "off-brands" like Sonora, Brunswick, etc. are "relatively unfamiliar", compared with Edison, Victor, Pathé, Columbia and the Gramophone Co. Furthermore, I personally rate them "inferior" because they contributed less to the development of the talking machine - and literally nothing to the period 1877-1914 I am interested in.

Other collectors have a different view, a position I can totally understand.

AZ* wrote:Maybe someone can start a thread about a burl-walnut, lowboy art-model off-brand machine.

Yeah, and for an added laugh we could throw in the hanging of witches too

Sad when an ego gets in the way of pleasant discourse, but some guys simply MUST be right, to be happy.

Did someone say "witches"?
Down here in The Arkansas-Missouri Ozark Mountains we have lots of witches but we don't burn-em no more. We just drag'em outa the trailer park and on down to the church were Brother Cecil casts out their demons. We talk in tongues for a while and then just go on home.

In the world of antique automobiles, there was a term used for the type of automobile or truck that was constructed from components made entirely by third parties: they were referred to as "assembled cars"... some of them fairly high-end and well-regarded. A few truck manufacturers actually bragged that their vehicles were "built from proven units made by these manufacturers" and framed the advertising copy with the names of the various component mfrs: "Borg & Beck Clutch", "Brown & Lipe Transmission", "Fedders Radiator", "Timken Rear Axle", "Continental Engine", etc.

Some of these vehicle "manufacturers" actually did their own engineering and design, and had compenents built to their design specifications ( thinking of Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg ,who had their engine designs actually manufactured by Lycoming Engines, in Williamsport, Penna )... others just kind of threw a vehicle together from "stock" parts.

Results varied...

Perhaps a "new" term worthy of consideration would be "assembled machine" ?

In my little part of the world,NE United States, any time the word "off" was used in a descriptive fashion, it usually meant something less than favorable - as in: "This milk is off, better throw it out"...


Be that as it may...

AZ* wrote:Maybe someone can start a thread about a burl-walnut, lowboy art-model off-brand machine.

...does it have the biggest metal horn ever made? (and none of that wooden packing crate horn crap).

Here's a video that shows an off-brand machine which plays very well indeed. In this case it's marked "FOX" but I've seen this case style with a variety of names. The hardware is generic, but the performance is nice.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rTSjwFq5po[/youtube]

estott wrote:Here's a video that shows an off-brand machine which plays very well indeed. In this case it's marked "FOX" but I've seen this case style with a variety of names. The hardware is generic, but the performance is nice.

Pretty wood! Was the stepped tone arm an attempt to skirt around Victor's tapered tone arm patents? I wonder if Fox was sued by Victor over that?

I think I heard Billy Murray in there.

The stepped tone arm was indeed to get around the Victor patents- I think Victor let some of these pass as they were more interested in going after the more direct clones- arms which incorporated not only tapers but goosenecks and which copied the Exhibition soundbox as well. I think the case was by some Grand Rapids supplier who sold it to a number of different companies as I've seen it with different names (like Mandel). You're right- the oak veneer is nicely matched and of better than average quality- the machine was probably not expensive but had the appearance of being more expensive.

Yes, that's Billy Murray in the quartette- he freelanced quite a bit.