Sonora Queen Anne in range

[antique1973]

I am going to check this machine out tomorrow. The seller says the cabinet is
pretty rough though. I noticed the one on Ebay has the wood tone arm. This one
has the gold so perhaps it was another factory option? Assuming the cabinet is
ok what do you guys think is fair market value on this now? Generally I avoid
offbrand machines and consoles, but this one seems complete parts-wise and a
period model at that. Kind of hard to ignore. By the way, that is the original manual
on the left side and not a missing veneer patch. Thanks for any info.

[estott]

This one should be under $200. It has potential but you're going to have to put some work into that case. Problem with consoles is that even the good looking ones don't cause much of a stir with collectors.

[bbphonoguy]

Unfortunately, Estott's right. For some reason, most collectors don't care for consoles. I like them, but they do require a lot of space.

This one would be beautiful if properly restored, and I don't consider Sonora to be an "off brand". It was, and still is, a well known name. I guess maybe "lesser brand" might be a better term, but that's just semantics anyway.

[gramophoneshane]

I don't consider Sonora to be an "off brand".

Even though they are Swiss Paillard parts (purchased by Sonora via Bawdy of Switzerland) in a fancy (& often not so fancy) cabinet?

[antique1973]

Thanks for the helpful advice gentleman! If it had the wood tonearm I would pick it up, but I think
I will pass.

[estott]

I think that the Sonora wood tone arms are nice in theory but to me they look heavy and clunky. The sound isn't improved

[De Soto Frank]

I don't think of Sonora as a "off-brand".... they are not as common as Victrolas, but were generally decent quality machines.

I have not seen Reiss or Fabrizio & Paul speak unkindly of them in their various books...

I would think they are at least up there with Columbia and Brunswick in terms of build quality...

I rescued a Sonora "Mae West" upright from a dumpster about 10 years ago, because I couldn't bear to see it go to the dump ... BUT, it is missing the tone-arm (probably metal), reproducer, winding crank, scroll-work grille, and doors in front of record storage...

It's still lurking in the back of my garage...

All of the wooden-arm Sonoras I have seen in shops, the wooden arm seems "floppy" and broken..

Good luck on your expedition ( don't spend too much on it ! )

[gramophoneshane]

As much as some people like to think of Sonora as not being an off-brand, the fact is that Sonora IS considered an off-brand phonograph/gramophone by the collectors community around the world & always has been.
Sonora didn't even start off in the gramophone business. They were clock makers who ran into legal problems in 1909, when they attempted to sell Paillard gramophones under their own name.
In 1913 the company changed it's name from The Sonora Chime Co, to The Sonora Phonograph Co, and started using John Herzog's bulge/bombe cabinet designs, patented in 1911. In 1923 they officially merged with Herzog Art Furniture of Saginaw.
Sonora was only allowed to exist because they paid huge sums of money in royalties for patents held by the big three, on a per unit basis.
Just because a particular brand name used by phono manufacturers & cabinet makers who used imported mechanics became popular, it doesn't exclude them from being off-brand manufacturers.
If this was so, then companies like Rexonola, Academy, Vocalion, Plaza Mucic Co, Apollo, and HUNDREDS of others would have to be excluded too.

[Victrolaman]

I dont know why some consider Sonora a off brand?
Sonora was nothing at all of a off brand. Sonora made some very nice machines, They also used Herzog to make some of the very nice cabinets for the Rare Period or art case models. The tone arm on this one is a standard tone arm, The wooden one would have came with a Period machine or you could get them as a upgrade.
This one listed here the cabinet isnt to bad, but needs work. Alot of people dont care to much for the Console style ones. I have a Sonora Jacobean Period model, Its listed on here some place.
I do not usually buy a console style machine unless is something rare or unique.
But i have learned one thing and that is everyone has an opinion and if you like it buy it.
Its going in your home and your buying it, if you like it grab it, everyone has theor own tatses, i have learned that if you wait to long to grab something while its available, you may miss out.
Sonora made some very nice machines and Cabinets, and im my opinion were not a off brand.
If anything email the guy, ask for his number make a offer worst he can say is no.

[brianu]

the term off-brand isn't being used pejoratively or even subjectively for that matter to describe the relative aesthetic or mechanical worth of a given machine. as explained above, it's simply referring not only to the smaller, non-major ("big three") US manufacturers (victor, edison and columbia... or abroad, hmv and Pathé, I'd imagine), but also to the companies, like sonora, that were simply smaller players in the business as a whole, in that they managed a much smaller phonograph market share because the primary production interests were elsewhere (furniture, pianos, etc.), and tended to use parts, components, cabinets and such produced by outfits other than themselves. a company like victor did everything in-house, an off-brand - albeit better-known off-brand - like sonora did not. that they are an off-brand, however, hardly diminishes the quality of their machines, though... well, the sound quality on most isn't the best, but the company used some of the better crafted cabinets and solid motors, and rarely if ever used pot metal for anything.